On Tuesday 09 October 2007 20:49:24 carol irvin wrote:
> in both photoshop and GIMP you do not need to do these functions as a layer
> adjustment
> (i.e. work on layers).  You can use the Image menu in photoshop and make
> these adjustments
> without layers or in Gimp you can go to the Tools menu and do an adjustment
> under colors.
> as long as you are saving your various versions, there is no danger of
> being stuck with a
> change you don't like.  You CAN do these as a layers adjustment but that
> presupposes
> that the user is already good at using layers and also wants to take the
> extra time to flatten and such.
> As for the actual use of the tools, each has
> its own dialog box with sliders and you manually slide the controls till
> you have something
> which pleases you.  I am NOT a purist where I insist on doing everything in
> layers.  I usually
> go to layers when I am blending various versions of images.  There are some
> who would regard
> me as a heretic for saying this though as they don't believe you should do
> anything without using
> layers.
> I think any of these manuals we have been discussing show illustrations of
> all of the above.
> Grooking the GIMP, as previously given as a link to the group, for sure
> shows all of the above
> and that manual is entirely online and free.
> carol
> On 10/9/07, Patrick Shanahan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > * carol irvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [10-09-07 23:14]:
> > > rather than relying on sharpen to sharpen an image, i have much better
> > > luck using levels or curves.
> > >
> > > i also typically increase saturation some on images after i have done
> > > a layers or curves adjustment.
> > >
> > > i thus almost never need to use sharpen, which is good, because
> > > sharpen usually doesn't make my image better.
> > >
> > > the above is true for both GIMP and Photoshop.
> >
> > Please provide a little more detail about this operation, ie: explain
> > "layers adjustment" and which "curves".
> >
> > interesting idea, tks,
> > - --
> > Patrick Shanahan         Plainfield, Indiana, USA        HOG # US1244711
> > http://wahoo.no-ip.org     Photo Album:  http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2
> > Registered Linux User #207535                    @ http://counter.li.org
> > Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn4472 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iD8DBQFHDES1ClSjbQz1U5oRAk+vAJ9Mc7faAFMks3lcjM7xAvAUrbqdIwCgmxw5
> > PU8np2PUrv/6CJkw/sZavZw=
> > =z3XG
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
I really cannot see any reason not to use layers - Flattening is such an easy 
but the benefits that come from using layers are so great that I would not 
see that as an obstacle. To not use layers seems IMHO rather like driving a 
car on a freeway whilst sticking to 30mph and choosing a low gear ratio. IF 
one is going to use sophisticated programs such as Gimp and photoshop then 
the additional effort of learning to use layers is trivial.

As far as sharpening is concerned I agree with Carol.  I have only ever found 
sharpening to have a role  for low resolution images and then very rarely. It 
is a tool that is best forgotten in favor of developing higher basic skills.

 I would never sharpen (unless it is to achieve a specific artistic effect) on 
high resolution images but for these I always use raw at 16bit.  

Sharpening does not make a photographic image that was taken without being 
properly focused any sharper.. in fact when you carefully examine high 
resolution  prints that have been so-called "sharpened" one can see the 
traces of the sharpening process and these only serve to make the image 
appear a little "odd". If the image is not sharp to start with there is no 
digital process available that is going to replace poor technique at the 
capturing stage.

My recomendation to students is if you think your photographic image needs 
sharpening then go back to basics.Use that image as                             
a spur to re-examining your capturing technique.  Examine your camera 
handling methods. See whether anappropriate shtter/aperture had been used and 
whether the ability to hand hold a camera steady has been over-estimmated or 
whether a hand held shot has been attempted that needed a tripod. Using a 
hand held camera in inapproprate conditions is a recipe for disaster. Could 
you have changed the ISO?

My two pennorth

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