Isn't it fascinating how we are willing to spend $100 billion a year
on a war, where things are just blown up and people are killed. We
are unwilling to spend $100 billion, or even much less than that, on
infrastructure and systems that would reduce our energy dependence on
fossil fuels, which is a primary reason we are in war in the first
place. (No matter how despicable a dictator Saddam was, if the
primary export of his country had been carrots, we would have left him
alone.)
On May 30, 11:15 am, "Michael Tobis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well said. I think the presentation here is laudable and I am
> therefore hastening to laud it.
>
> I am also happy to have an occasion to agree with Heiko. The tendency
> these days to proceed contentiously rather than with honest respect
> for the valid points of one's opposition is at the core of our current
> difficulties.
>
> Heiko, perhaps you will be interested in Al Gore's recent book on
> related matters, "The Assault on Reason".
>
> mt
>
> On 5/30/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've noticed something interesting about the way trade-offs are
> > discussed in the environmental debate. Lomborg likes economic growth,
> > and wants low carbon taxes. He therefore argues that economic growth
> > is a necessary pre-condition for environmental imrpovements, and that
> > there are important trade-offs between high carbon taxes or Kyoto and
> > economic development, ie we can have either an inconsequential Kyoto
> > or clean drinking water for a billion.
>
> > On the other hand, conservationists who happen to like polar bear
> > habitat, or the preservation of ocean eco-systems, argue that, no
> > there are no trade-offs here, really, the preservation of eco-systems
> > is a necessary pre-condition for human welfare and economic activity.
> > If there are trade-offs, they are ones between laziness (not changing
> > to an energy efficient light bulb) or egomania (say wanting powerful
> > cars) and the end of the world, as we know it.
>
> > In other words, there either are no trade-offs, where we'd have to
> > give up one thing to have another, or they are so damn obvious that
> > any sane person would know what to painlessly make do without.
>
> > I do wonder how much of this is rhetorical, and how much it is based
> > in fact. Are there really no hard choices to be made?
>
> > To the Lomborgists I say, is it really true that we couldn't afford
> > clean drinking water, if we do Kyoto? If it's really such a good deal,
> > why not finance it from say reduced military or Western social
> > security expenditure?
>
> > And can we really say across the board that there's no trade-off
> > between economic growth and protecting species habitats?
>
> > To the conservationists I say, how do you know that ocean
> > acidification is a major menace to human welfare? You are sure that
> > it's not wishful thinking driving your arguments, and that the desire
> > to protect habitat for its own sake is influencing your thinking on
> > how important these habitats really are for human welfare?
>
> > Couldn't it be that we actually do have a choice between some
> > substantial extra human welfare, and major changes in eco-systems?
> > That it's neither the case that extra growth will in and of itself
> > protect the eco-systems, or that eco-system impacts will be such to
> > make growth impossible?
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