Dear Per, The headline in the Daily Mail reads - Could we be in for 30 years of global cooling?
>From the peer reviewed science - the answer is quite clearly yes. I did read the link. Dr Latif is clearly in a difficult position. He says that 50% of recent warming is oceans and that there is a prospect of no warming for 20 to 30 years from 1998. Obviously this has significant implications for the way we understand climate change. But it is something that seems to go in one and out the other of people who seem to have an ideological commitment to imminent global catastrophes of various kinds. ‘In short, the greatest immediate risk to the population living in the conditions created by Industrial Civilization is the population itself. Civilization has created the perfect conditions for a terrible tragedy on the kind of scale never seen before in the history of humanity. That is one reason for there to be fewer people, providing you are planning on staying within civilization - I really wouldn't recommend it, though.’ ‘Unloading essentially means the removal of an existing burden: for instance, removing grazing domesticated animals, razing cities to the ground, blowing up dams and switching off the greenhouse gas emissions machine. The process of ecological unloading is an accumulation of many of the things I have already explained in this chapter, along with an (almost certainly necessary) element of sabotage.’ http://www.farnish.plus.com/amatterofscale/index.htm There is an element here of cognitive dissonance. If you are not one of these people I apologise for thinking you’re just another drone. The current and prospective non-warming is emergent behaviour of a complex and dynamic system - you should have a good look at a 2002 National Academy of Science publication Abrupt Climate Change: Inevitable Surprises. Abrupt climate change at scales from decades to ice ages and beyond is the reality rather than global warming. Dr Latif’s model goes to 2015 – he has no more basis than the rest of us for predicting anything beyond that. Cheers Robert On Jan 22, 11:48 pm, Per Edman <[email protected]> wrote: > Robbo, > > Perhaps we read two different articles on DailyMail and perhaps we fight two > different fights here, but I have read several articles and spoken to > several people who give the distinct impression, sometimes vehemently, that > global cooling has stopped since the El Nino of 1998. Oh sure it's > irrational, dishonest or just plain misdirected, but it is nevertheless > stated, repeatedly. Are you sure you have not seen anyone claim anything > like that? > > I hope you read the interview with professor Latif I linked to, rather than > the selection made by the "Daily Mail reporter", as that is why I linked to > it. I'm not ignoring anything here, nor am I picking out select quotes that > I believe agree with something I am trying to prove. > > Nor do I see which party this line would belong to. > > / Per > > 2010/1/22 Robbo <[email protected]> > > > > > Dear Per, > > > I really don't know why I bother. No one is talking about more than 2 > > to 3 decades of no warming from 1998. This seems to be the pattern of > > ocean and atmospheric temperatures in the instrumental record. I > > didn't interpret anything but simply copied the quotes from Dr Latiff > > and Anastasios Tsonis. Both highly respected scientists in the field > > - and both of whom have said similar things in peer reviewed > > literature. > > > You are being a drongo - as we say in Oz - and so are the guys at > > Nature. You can't really ignore the prospect of 2 to 3 decades of no > > warming and expect to be taken seriously. This is a hole in climate > > science that you can drive jumbo jet through. > > > Seriously - 50% of recent warming being ocean cycles? I can't quite > > grasp the mindset of someone who can see this and continue to plug > > faithfully the party line. Perhaps you could explain to me how this > > does not contradict the central finding of the IPCC that most recent > > warming has anthropogenic origins or that temperature will rise at 0.2 > > degrees C/decade for the first few decades on the 21st century? > > > Cheers > > Robert > > > On Jan 22, 8:28 am, Per Edman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Robbo, > > > > I don't believe Professor Latif agrees with your, or the Daily Mail's, > > > interpretation of his opinion: > > > > > Dr. LATIF: If my name was not Mojib Latif, my name would be global > > > > warming. So I really believe in Global Warming.> Okay. However, you know, > > we have to accept that there are these natural > > > > fluctuations, and therefore, the temperature > > > > > may not show additional warming temporarily. > > > > Do read more: > >http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120668812&ft=1&f... > > > > / Per > > -- > / Per -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Global Change ("globalchange") newsgroup. Global Change is a public, moderated venue for discussion of science, technology, economics and policy dimensions of global environmental change. Posts will be admitted to the list if and only if any moderator finds the submission to be constructive and/or interesting, on topic, and not gratuitously rude. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/globalchange
