I've started marking "whiteboard" of bugs in this class with tag
"GLUSTERFS_METADATA_INCONSISTENCY". Please add the tag to any bugs which
you deem to fit in.

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:30 PM, Raghavendra Gowdappa <rgowd...@redhat.com>
wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pranith Kumar Karampuri" <pkara...@redhat.com>
> > To: "Raghavendra G" <raghaven...@gluster.com>
> > Cc: "Gluster Devel" <gluster-devel@gluster.org>
> > Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 2:30:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Gluster-devel] Glusterfs and Structured data
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 12:05 PM, Raghavendra G < raghaven...@gluster.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 8:15 PM, Vijay Bellur < vbel...@redhat.com >
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 3:39 AM, Raghavendra Gowdappa <
> rgowd...@redhat.com >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> > One of our users pointed out to the documentation that glusterfs is not
> good
> > for storing "Structured data" [1], while discussing an issue [2].
> >
> >
> > As far as I remember, the content around structured data in the Install
> Guide
> > is from a FAQ that was being circulated in Gluster, Inc. indicating the
> > startup's market positioning. Most of that was based on not wanting to
> get
> > into performance based comparisons of storage systems that are frequently
> > seen in the structured data space.
> >
> >
> > Does any of you have more context on the feasibility of storing
> "structured
> > data" on Glusterfs? Is one of the reasons for such a suggestion
> "staleness
> > of metadata" as encountered in bugs like [3]?
> >
> >
> > There are challenges that distributed storage systems face when exposed
> to
> > applications that were written for a local filesystem interface. We have
> > encountered problems with applications like tar [4] that are not in the
> > realm of "Structured data". If we look at the common theme across all
> these
> > problems, it is related to metadata & read after write consistency issues
> > with the default translator stack that gets exposed on the client side.
> > While the default stack is optimal for other scenarios, it does seem
> that a
> > category of applications needing strict metadata consistency is not well
> > served by that. We have observed that disabling a few performance
> > translators and tuning cache timeouts for VFS/FUSE have helped to
> overcome
> > some of them. The WIP effort on timestamp consistency across the
> translator
> > stack, patches that have been merged as a result of the bugs that you
> > mention & other fixes for outstanding issues should certainly help in
> > catering to these workloads better with the file interface.
> >
> > There are deployments that I have come across where glusterfs is used for
> > storing structured data. gluster-block & qemu-libgfapi overcome the
> metadata
> > consistency problem by exposing a file as a block device & by disabling
> most
> > of the performance translators in the default stack. Workloads that have
> > been deemed problematic with the file interface for the reasons alluded
> > above, function well with the block interface.
> >
> > I agree that gluster-block due to its usage of a subset of glusterfs fops
> > (mostly reads/writes I guess), runs into less number of consistency
> issues.
> > However, as you've mentioned we seem to disable perf xlator stack in our
> > tests/use-cases till now. Note that perf xlator stack is one of worst
> > offenders as far as the metadata consistency is concerned (relatively
> less
> > scenarios of data inconsistency). So, I wonder,
> > * what would be the scenario if we enable perf xlator stack for
> > gluster-block?
> > * Is performance on gluster-block satisfactory so that we don't need
> these
> > xlators?
> > - Or is it that these xlators are not useful for the workload usually
> run on
> > gluster-block (For random read/write workload, read/write caching xlators
> > offer less or no advantage)?
> >
> > Yes. They are not useful. Block/VM files are opened with O_DIRECT, so we
> > don't enable caching at any layer in glusterfs. md-cache could be useful
> for
> > serving fstat from glusterfs. But apart from that I don't see any other
> > xlator contributing much.
> >
> >
> >
> > - Or theoretically the workload is ought to benefit from perf xlators,
> but we
> > don't see them in our results (there are open bugs to this effect)?
> >
> > I am asking these questions to ascertain priority on fixing perf xlators
> for
> > (meta)data inconsistencies. If we offer a different solution for these
> > workloads, the need for fixing these issues will be less.
> >
> > My personal opinion is that both block and fs should work correctly. i.e.
> > caching xlators shouldn't lead to inconsistency issues.
>
> +1. That's my personal opinion too. We'll try to fix these issues.
> However, we need to qualify the fixes. It would be helpful if community can
> help here. We'll let community know when the fixes are in.
>
> > It would be better
> > if we are in a position where we choose a workload on block vs fs based
> on
> > their performance for that workload and nothing else. Block/VM usecases
> > change the workload of the application for glusterfs, so for small file
> > operations the kind of performance you see on block can never be
> achieved by
> > glusterfs with the current architecture/design.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I feel that we have come a long way from the time the install guide was
> > written and an update for removing the "staleness of content" might be in
> > order there :-).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Vijay
> >
> > [4] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1058526
> >
> >
> >
> > [1] http://docs.gluster.org/en/latest/Install-Guide/Overview/
> > [2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1512691
> > [3] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1390050
> >
> > regards,
> > Raghavendra
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gluster-devel mailing list
> > Gluster-devel@gluster.org
> > http://lists.gluster.org/mailman/listinfo/gluster-devel
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Raghavendra G
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gluster-devel mailing list
> > Gluster-devel@gluster.org
> > http://lists.gluster.org/mailman/listinfo/gluster-devel
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pranith
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>



-- 
Raghavendra G
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