I was suggesting using the notification area in the mockup as more of a window list.
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Rovanion Luckey <[email protected] > wrote: > But then again. What is the function of the top bar if you move the > notification area to the bottom? > > By moving the activities button to the bottom panel there is no issue > in removing the top pane since the only thing that it currently > provides is a clock and a user settings menu. Or is a Mac OS like menu > planned for the top pane? > > 2009/12/30 Apoorva Sharma <[email protected]>: > > The mockup of the message tray system here: > > http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/shell/mockups/20090630-demo<http://www.gnome.org/%7Emccann/shell/mockups/20090630-demo>shows > > something > > similar to a minimized list of applications. Perhaps applications could > > create an icon there when they open, and shrink down to their icon when > they > > are minimized. Furthermore, it could allow more complex interaction as > shown > > in the mockup (e.g. music control) by showing a Docky like popup on > > mouseover, which each application could customize for themselves. If the > > application was not built for Gnome, the popup could simply show the > > traditional close, minimize, etc. > > > > This implementation of a taskbar/dock will allow space for the messaging > > system, but still provide easy, non-obtrusive window switching that is > > currently lacking in GNOME Shell. > > > > As far is making this area known as a application/window switcher, it > could > > slide up, as it does in the mockup, whenever a new window is opened. > > > > On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Rovanion Luckey < > [email protected]> > > wrote: > >> > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: Rovanion Luckey <[email protected]> > >> Date: 2009/12/30 > >> Subject: Re: Re : interapplication communication > >> To: Nicolas de Fontenay <[email protected]> > >> > >> > >> Switching between windows is probably the most used function of a DE. > >> The activities pane does a fairly good job of this, tough on a small > >> laptop or even netbook screen the interface becomes very small if the > >> user is having more than four workspaces/activities running. > >> > >> I'm sure that this idea has been up previously in the mailing list but > >> if the application switcher is to become a window switcher, why not > >> design it as the Compiz scale plugin? > >> > http://andrewharvey4.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/compiz_scale_plugin.png > >> > >> > >> 2009/12/30 Nicolas de Fontenay <[email protected]>: > >> > Hi. > >> > > >> > I have to side with Felipe here. We must be able to switch one > >> > application > >> > to another with a mouse click. > >> > I know a lot of people reluctant to use ALT + TAB. Starting by my > mother > >> > and > >> > dad. > >> > > >> > But why not make it flexibe? > >> > > >> > Basically, anybody new to gnome shell, looking for a way to switch > >> > windows > >> > will look for a place where they are listed to click on. > >> > Users should be given the option of having a docking bar with > currently > >> > open > >> > apps: > >> > a) from the active workspace only > >> > b) from all workspace > >> > c) No dock bar at all (use of alt + tab implied) > >> > > >> > I like the current dock bar at the bottom of gnome. I can hide it if I > >> > want > >> > to. I think the auto hide option is good enough. > >> > > >> > As for the ALT + TAB, I think the following behavior would be better. > >> > > >> > 1) Alt + Tab switches between applications from a same workspace > first. > >> > 2) If Alt + Tab went through all the list of open applications in > active > >> > workspace AND open application exists in Workspace 2 Then > >> > Go to Activity mode and display next application highlighted. > >> > 3) When the next open window is selected: If it's the same workspace, > >> > simply > >> > change application ELSE Make workspace owning open application the > >> > active > >> > workspace and selected application the active window. > >> > > >> > If people don't like to go across workspace using alt + tab, they > should > >> > be > >> > given the option to loop through the applications on the active > >> > workspace > >> > instead. > >> > > >> > I don't know how hard this would be to implement but it would be > pretty > >> > awesome to choose the behavior. > >> > > >> > regards, > >> > > >> > Nico > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > De : Felipe Erias Morandeira <[email protected]> > >> > À : [email protected] > >> > Envoyé le : Mer 30 Décembre 2009, 11 h 51 min 41 s > >> > Objet : Re: interapplication communication > >> > > >> > You are suggesting a task bar/window list/dock, even if you don't want > >> > to say it. The visual appearance and user experience is obviously open > >> > to debate, but at the end of the day we want a way to have all windows > >> > in the current activity displayed together, so switching to a certain > >> > one is just a matter of point and click. Yeah, every other system has > >> > something like that and we want GNOME Shell to be different... but > have > >> > we considered that maybe they all have it because it makes sense? > Isn't > >> > switching between open windows one of the major use cases of a modern > >> > desktop system? > >> > > >> > There's no doubt that the message tray, the favourites well or the > >> > recent documents list are important pieces of functionality. But again > I > >> > have to ask, are they more important than switching between open > >> > windows? I personally use neither of the former functionalities in my > >> > daily life, but I surely do switch a lot between windows. It could be > >> > that I am an atypical user, but in any case I would suggest that we > >> > study how people are using their computers right now and try to > provide > >> > a solution that at least is not more cumbersome for the most common > use > >> > cases. > >> > > >> > > >> > Felipe > >> > > >> > Sam Illingworth wrote: > >> >> Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but with it being automatic (maybe > >> >> that could be an option?) I like the idea of now having a seperate > >> >> state > >> >> for minimized widows and just making the window manager arrange them > so > >> >> teyre out of the way. If there wasn't room to shrink them to a side > of > >> >> the screen it could push them off the side a bit. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On 29 Dec 2009, at 09:22 PM, Rovanion Luckey > >> >> <[email protected]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Minimizing windows does not work at the moment, they simply > disappear > >> >>> and that's confusing even for me. The stereotypical mom using gnome > >> >>> shell will think that the minimize button closed her application. > >> >>> > >> >>> What if pressing the minimize button made the window become small > and > >> >>> hide on free desktop space, space not obscured by any window. I am > not > >> >>> sure what would happend if all desktop space was to be obscured, a > >> >>> pretty normal situation I suppose on a small screen. Should the > >> >>> minimized window then take their hideout on the top shell panel? > Just > >> >>> showing the lower bottom of the window or maybe it's icon, and > moused > >> >>> over the window would become larger and come out of the shell panel. > >> >>> > >> >>> Tough that's a bit like a taskbar. Maybe you would have the lower > >> >>> right corner to show windows on the current activity. Just as the > top > >> >>> left corner shows activities. > >> >>> > >> >>> 2009/12/29 Samuel Arthur Wright Illingworth <[email protected]>: > >> >>>> Ooooh, I love that idea! I was just gonna suggest a hot corner > that > >> >>>> arranges all the windows on the current workspace, like they get > >> >>>> arranged in > >> >>>> the activities overlay, but without zooming out. > >> >>>> One thing I will say though - Owen, you say you're dead set against > >> >>>> having a > >> >>>> static list of the existing windows, but I for one need a visual > >> >>>> reminder of > >> >>>> what windows I've got open for the current activity - it helps > focus > >> >>>> my mind > >> >>>> on what I'm doing, what information I have available to me, what I > >> >>>> need to > >> >>>> do next, etc. It's also an instant and predictable way of finding > >> >>>> the > >> >>>> window you want - if something pops up or is arranged dynamically > >> >>>> (like a > >> >>>> hidden alt-tab style dock or Scale style action) you have to wait > and > >> >>>> look > >> >>>> to find where the window you want is. > >> >>>> OK, here's an idea (not thought about it much): how about we get > rid > >> >>>> of the > >> >>>> minimize button, and replace it with a don't-minimize button. Any > >> >>>> window > >> >>>> that's not got don't-minimize ticked will minimize automatically > when > >> >>>> you > >> >>>> select another window. But when minimized, it will actually shrink > >> >>>> into a > >> >>>> thumbnail on whichever edge of the screen (left, bottom or right) > has > >> >>>> the > >> >>>> most space (so they can be as big as possible), depending where the > >> >>>> active > >> >>>> window is. Because it visually shrinks down you know where it is. > >> >>>> If the > >> >>>> active window gets too big so the thumbnails would have to shrink > >> >>>> down tiny > >> >>>> to be visible then they'll start to be covered by the active window > >> >>>> and only > >> >>>> come on top on mouse over. When maximized they won't be visible. > To > >> >>>> see > >> >>>> two windows side by side, unminimized, you can click the don't > >> >>>> minimize > >> >>>> button on one of them (although having some Windows 7 style > >> >>>> side-by-side > >> >>>> thingy would be handy too). > >> >>>> I'm sure that there are lots of problems with that idea, but meh. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> 2009/12/29 Johannes Schmid <[email protected]> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Hi Owen! > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> In terms of this week and last week, most of the full time GNOME > >> >>>>>> shell > >> >>>>>> developers are on vacation, and in some cases entirely away from > >> >>>>>> computers. Yes, we don't post enough here even at other times. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Actually, I wasn't expecting any updates during X-mas but this > >> >>>>> discussion has been on the mailing list in different threads for > >> >>>>> quite a > >> >>>>> long time. And this discussion doesn't result in anything unless > >> >>>>> people > >> >>>>> doing the work will lead it in some direction. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> Once you are done working through that exercise, the result > doesn't > >> >>>>>> look > >> >>>>>> much like the current GNOME Shell; you've lost most of the things > >> >>>>>> that > >> >>>>>> are distinctive about the current GNOME Shell design, and the > >> >>>>>> result, it > >> >>>>>> seems to me, would look pretty much like other current desktops. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Now, the goal of GNOME Shell isn't to be something radically new > >> >>>>>> and > >> >>>>>> different, it's to be a great user interface for GNOME 3, so > maybe > >> >>>>>> we'll > >> >>>>>> need to go ahead and make a big switch to something more > >> >>>>>> conventional; > >> >>>>>> maybe the current ideas just aren't right. But we definitely want > >> >>>>>> to > >> >>>>>> finish our current design ideas and get some experience with > users > >> >>>>>> before we make such a move. (The message tray is probably the > last > >> >>>>>> large > >> >>>>>> remaining piece; we're hoping to get that landed next week.) > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Sure, user feedback is probably the most important point. (One of > >> >>>>> the > >> >>>>> reasons that I didn't post here before having used gnome-shell for > a > >> >>>>> while). > >> >>>>> Regarding the task list I am all against a button panel but I > still > >> >>>>> thinnk there needs to be a fast way to change the window (not > >> >>>>> essentially the same as the task) using mouse only without the > >> >>>>> overlay. > >> >>>>> If you read the archive you will see a lot of post dicussion > various > >> >>>>> ideas because people are very used to it, even those power-user > >> >>>>> keyboards freaks. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Just another idea that poped into my mind: What about having the > >> >>>>> alt-tab > >> >>>>> chooser as kind of dock that pops up when you move the mouse to > the > >> >>>>> buttom of the screen? > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Thanks and regards, > >> >>>>> Johannes > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> On Sat, 2009-12-26 Reiner Jung wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> I guess these discussions can become somewhat cumbersome for > >> >>>>>>>> developers, > >> >>>>>>>> because they are largely on the same topics. I think it would > be > >> >>>>>>>> helpful > >> >>>>>>>> to distill a set of use-cases and a set of solutions for these > >> >>>>>>>> use > >> >>>>>>>> cases > >> >>>>>>>> on the basis of gnome-shell. > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> I suggest that we collect ideas on this list for problems we > have > >> >>>>>>>> determined and send them our proposals. But to get features > into > >> >>>>>>>> the > >> >>>>>>>> shell we should not only propose them, but try to convince the > >> >>>>>>>> developers to like them (so they implement them). > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Two things I'd encourage: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> - When documenting problems, be exceedingly specific; don't say > >> >>>>>> "the new Alt-Tab makes it hard to switch between windows of > >> >>>>>> an application" rather say "When I'm writing an email in an > >> >>>>>> Evolution composer window and want to switch back to the > >> >>>>>> main Evolution window to look at another message for > reference, > >> >>>>>> I often find myself ending up in a different application" > >> >>>>>> (or even more detail) > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Generalization from a specific problem to a generic problem > >> >>>>>> often > >> >>>>>> involves making an assumption about how the situation is best > >> >>>>>> resolved. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> - The most interesting thing at the current time are incremental > >> >>>>>> ideas - how could the ideas of the shell be extended or > reworked > >> >>>>>> to make them better? Such ideas are more interesting than > >> >>>>>> complaints about how the shell isn't working. And they are > >> >>>>>> more interesting than ideas that are massive changes in > >> >>>>>> direction. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> If these ideas can be expressed in a few words that's better. > >> >>>>>> IF they can be expressed visually, even better. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> On Sun, 2009-12-27 at 00:33 +0100, Johannes Schmid wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> OK, I created a page in the wiki, it lacks the solutions > currently > >> >>>>>>> and > >> >>>>>>> has to be filled with more data of course: > >> >>>>>>> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/UseCases > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> This page doesn't seem helpful in the current form; "Netbook" and > >> >>>>>> "Desktop Computer" are exceedingly general. Depending on how I'm > >> >>>>>> using > >> >>>>>> my desktop computer, there are likely hundreds of pros to the > >> >>>>>> current > >> >>>>>> GNOME Shell design and hundreds of cons. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> I'd like to have a way of documenting "points of frustration" - > >> >>>>>> what the > >> >>>>>> user was doing (very specifically) and how the shell was failing. > >> >>>>>> But > >> >>>>>> I'm not really sure the best place to do that. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> - They might get lost in the noise in the mailing list > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> - Wikis aren't very good for discussion > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> - Bugzilla might be the best fit, but I'm reluctant to have bugs > >> >>>>>> in > >> >>>>>> Bugzilla that don't correspond to clear tasks - a patch to > >> >>>>>> review, > >> >>>>>> a specific change to make to match up with a mockup, a crash, > >> >>>>>> etc. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> I'll discuss this some with Jon when we are both back from > vacation > >> >>>>>> and > >> >>>>>> we'll see if we can come up with a good procedure. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> - Owen > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>>> gnome-shell-list mailing list > >> >>>>> [email protected] > >> >>>>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> -- > >> >>>> Sam Illingworth > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> gnome-shell-list mailing list > >> >>>> [email protected] > >> >>>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> www.twitter.com/Rovanion > >> >>> Steam: Rovanion > >> >>> MSN: [email protected] > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> gnome-shell-list mailing list > >> >>> [email protected] > >> >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> gnome-shell-list mailing list > >> >> [email protected] > >> >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > gnome-shell-list mailing list > >> > [email protected] > >> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > gnome-shell-list mailing list > >> > [email protected] > >> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> www.twitter.com/Rovanion > >> Steam: Rovanion > >> MSN: [email protected] > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> www.twitter.com/Rovanion > >> Steam: Rovanion > >> MSN: [email protected] > >> _______________________________________________ > >> gnome-shell-list mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > > > > > > > > -- > > appi > > > > > > -- > www.twitter.com/Rovanion > Steam: Rovanion > MSN: [email protected] > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > -- appi
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