FYI, I don’t believe the help or the guide comes with the Mac bundle either. I tried the links in the help menu for both and nothing happened. I should think if they aren’t installed, they should at least point to the appropriate locations on the web. (I think there is already a bug for this)
-Adrien > On May 27, 2017, at 7:03 PM, doncram <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks for your reply to me. Right, I have to agree that what is on the > main page needs to be simple, and can't link to multiple versions of the > Help manual or of the Tutorial and Concepts Guide. A different page about > documentation in the Wiki should list all the separate versions, however, > to inform any of us trying to develop them, or trying to understand why one > user says they do see or don't see something odd. Your point that "for > > Linux users, the docs are not included in the base package, but must be > installed separately" should be stated, for example. > > However, I still think the main page should not basically say "for other > documentation, see this documentation page at the website" when that target > only lists the Help manual and the Tutorial and Concepts Guide and gives no > other documentation, and then goes off into non-documentation like email > lists and IRC. And I do think the FAQ on the Wiki, at least, if not any > searchable interface to the email archives, should be considered part of > documentation and mentioned in the main page. > > Again, I think if you and I could edit a "sandbox" version of the mainpage, > we could sort all this out, and anyone could review to see that it all > works, and then an administrator could easily copy it over to the > mainpage. I meant to ask anyone to please create such a sandbox page so we > could do that, by my previous email reply (which i think went to just you, > until i just forwarded a new copy to gnucash-dev. > > Could someone please open a page at > http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox for me and David T. to edit > at. :) I am not allowed to create a new page. Or I can wait a few more > days and see whether I automatically get rights to create new wiki pages, > which I was told may happen after being emailconfirmed for a week. > > Cheers, --Don > > > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:22 PM, David T. <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On May 27, 2017, at 12:41 AM, doncram <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I think the suggested proposed page is good. I do have a few changes to >> the proposed version to suggest, including about clarifying what >> documentation is available, and I'd like for you and me and anyone else to >> be able to edit, in the Wiki, a proposed new version of the main Wiki page. >> >> It's not clear which exact links you mean where you have written "{link}" >> in a few places. I'd like to be more clear about those, and their >> labelling. Specifically, I would not recommend linking to the >> "Documentation" page at the website, which mixes topic of documentation >> with support, and which omits some documentation. I have no idea how to >> change the website, but let's try to make the main Wiki page comprehensive >> and accurate about the Documentation available. >> >> >> Don, >> >> The Help link and the Tutorial link would go directly to those docs (e.g. >> http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help & http: >> //www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide), since they are the officially >> released materials. The last line of that section would link to >> http://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml. >> >> My intention in the Documentation section here is not to include every >> Documentation permutation of every possibility that might exist; my goal is >> to provide the best means of getting good information about GnuCash. >> Linking to the official, current release documentation serves that purpose. >> I feel that the tendency to be exhaustive results in so much information >> that the new user is overwhelmed—as, for example your own experience with >> the Documentation Update Instructions page. Having four entries each for >> the Help and the Guide IMO is overkill. I would rather have a shorter list >> that addresses most immediate needs, but points to the other options that >> are available, for those who need that as well. Section 1.1 in my example >> does exactly that. >> >> I’m not sure what you mean about the Documentation page on the GnuCash >> website omitting things. As I understand it, there are exactly two official >> pieces of documentation: the Help Manual, and the Tutorial and Concepts >> Guide. Both of these are available at the Documentation page on the main >> website. What is missing? >> >> Specific comments on your edits: >> 1) >> >> For Linux users, I believe, the docs are not included in the base package, >> but must be installed separately. Perhaps different wording could be found. >> 2) Development copies of the docs are available from >> www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml >> 3) Adding the Guide glossary to my mind is duplicative; we already >> referred the user to the Guide; they can see the Glossary there. Moreover, >> the Wiki glossary refers to the Guide glossary at the beginning of the page. >> 4) We could quibble over whether the mailing lists constitute >> documentation or not. I felt the lists were more support-oriented than >> documentation oriented, although I conceded that many questions on the list >> are answered by suggesting the user search the list achives. >> 5) There is no GnuCash-user search interface, beyond Google. >> >> David >> >> >> Note that Documentation available includes: >> Help manual (available within your downloaded GnuCash software, in >> whatever version that is) >> Help manual ( http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help , with >> version not identified ) >> Help manual version 2.6 (specifically available somewhere within the >> website ) >> Help manual version latest version in progress (available within >> GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash? Not >> available online? Or available somewhere within >> http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?) >> Tutorial and Concepts Guide (available within your downloaded GnuCash >> software, in whatever version that is) >> Tutorial and Concepts Guide ( http://www.gnucash.org/ >> viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide , with version not identified ) >> Tutorial and Concepts Guide version 2.6 (specifically available within >> the website, somewhere) >> Tutorial and Concepts Guide latest version in progress (available >> within GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of >> GnuCash? Not available online? Or available somewhere within >> http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?) >> Glossary, within the Tutorial and Concepts Guide >> Glossary at the Wiki, which states that it may have more ( >> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Glossary ) >> FAQ at the Wiki >> Gnucash-user email list archive by month from July 2000 ( >> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/ ) >> Gnucash-user search interface (available where?) >> Note "Support" available is different, and includes the email lists and >> IRC chat. >> >> Could someone please create a Wiki subpage at Talk:GnuCash/sandbox (i.e. >> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Talk:GnuCash/sandbox) where David T. and I >> and anyone else could edit the proposal? I suggest calling it "sandbox" in >> parallel to how, in Wikipedia, development of revisions to protected >> templates is done. When we have a complete version there, fully functional >> with all links and so on, and have reached some consensus about it being >> ready (via discussion at Talk:GnuCash and/or here in gnucash-devel), then >> it will be easy for an administrator to copy it over to the main page. >> >> Developing a proposed new version within the Wiki is consistent with the >> plan envisaged at the Talk page of the main page, which states: >> Please add your suggested changes here and we will commit them as soon as >> possible (usually in less than a few hours).--Cstim >> <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/User:Cstim> 04:53, 27 January 2006 (EST) >> >> But I think it is helpful to have a complete new version in a Wiki page, >> ready to be copied over, rather than requesting changes piecemeal on the >> Talk page or on the gnucash-devel email list. It is too cumbersome to >> request them that way, and requested change might not work, because it >> hasn't been demonstrated in a sandbox. I would develop the sandbox if >> someone would please create a sandbox page. :) >> >> cheers, Don >> >> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 2:30 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I would like to propose substantial changes to the Wiki landing page ( >>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki >>> /GnuCash>), a page I can’t edit. I apologize in advance for the length >>> and complexity of this email, but that’s the price to pay for control. >>> >>> For ease of analysis, I have put >>> >>> {Begin}--------------- and >>> {END}------------------- >>> >>> around the proposed wiki text. I should also note that there are many >>> minor edits in my texts, beyond the higher-level reorganization. Finally, I >>> include comments about changes in a section immediately after that section. >>> >>> Now, on to the edits! >>> >>> First off, the complexity of the page recommends an opening table of >>> contents with the following (linked) top level headings: >>> >>> 1) Available Documentation >>> 1.x) Wiki Translation >>> 2) Installation >>> 3) Support Options >>> 4) Developing for GnuCash >>> >>> This table of contents should include secondary headings as appropriate. >>> >>> Note that I propose demoting the Wiki Translation section as a subsection >>> of Available Documentation, since the wikis are, after all, a part of the >>> documentation. I wonder whether there is a better way to handle this, >>> though. I recognize that it is important to get speakers of other languages >>> to their native language sites, but I wonder if there is a way to mimic >>> what www.gnucash.org does, with language links at the top? >>> >>> Additionally, I recommend promoting Installation to a primary level since >>> this is a subject that comes up regularly, and this will bring this >>> always-contentious issue into more prominence. >>> >>> Stylistically overall, the page needs bullet entries to begin with a name >>> of the entity being described. For example, under Wiki Translation, the >>> bullets should begin with “German Language Wiki,” “Spanish Language Wiki,” >>> and “Portugese Language Wiki.” This convention should be applied >>> consistently in each section, and will allow the table of contents to make >>> sense. >>> >>> Under Available Documentation, I propose the following: >>> >>> {BEGIN}------------------------------------- >>> 1. Available Documentation >>> 1.1 Official GnuCash Documentation. GnuCash offers two major pieces of >>> documentation: >>> • The Help Manual {linked} - a quick reference manual for >>> specific tasks, and >>> • The Tutorial and Concepts Guide {link} - an in-depth guide to >>> the concepts. It is highly recommended to read at least the first chapters >>> of the guide. >>> For the latest documentation (i.e., unstable releases of the >>> documentation), or to get documentation for other languages or earlier >>> releases, see the Documentation page on the GnuCash.org >>> <http://gnucash.org> website {link}. >>> >>> 1.2 GnuCash Wikis >>> (Parts of) this wiki have been translated into other languages or >>> contain information for one specific language only. >>> • The German Wiki {link} de/GnuCash Deutsche Wiki-Seiten, im >>> Entstehen. >>> • The Spanish Wiki {link} es/GnuCash Wiki español. >>> • The Portugese Wiki {link} pt/GnuCash Sítio Wiki em Português, >>> em andamento. >>> >>> 1.3 The GnuCash FAQ {link} contains the collection of frequently asked >>> questions about GnuCash, including administration, accounting, and glossary >>> questions. >>> >>> 1.4 Using GnuCash collects real life experiences using GnuCash. You may >>> find (user) solutions here that are not covered by the documentation. >>> >>> 1.5 The Wiki Glossary explains some often used terms, with additional >>> terms useful for developers, documentation writers, and translators. >>> >>> 1.6 More Specific Topics [NOTE: I think this needs re-thinking generally; >>> I believe these pages should be linked in elsewhere altogether. In the >>> interest of moving the discussion along, I have kept them here, but see >>> below] >>> • "Normal” Usage >>> • Keyboard Shortcuts >>> • Using Scheduled Transactions >>> • Online Banking: Setting up OFXDirectConnect in GnuCash >>> 2 and AqBanking (FinTS/HBCI) >>> • Trading Accounts (New since 2.3.8/2.4.0) >>> • Scripting and Programming >>> • How to create some Custom Reports >>> • Python Bindings >>> • Notes about the C API >>> • The GnuCash API >>> • Error Seaching >>> • Logging messages and filtering detail. >>> • Getting a Stack Trace. >>> 1.7 External Documentation Resources >>> • GnuCash Quick Start Guide For Business Users. >>> • Also, business users might be interested in a book by PacktPub, >>> UK: GnuCash 2.4 Small Business Accounting, by Ashok Ramachandran. >>> • List to external international documentation and a somewhat >>> outdated list of available online documentation. >>> >>> {END}---------------------------------- >>> >>> I recommend that the section currently in Documentation called “Some more >>> specific topics:” should be moved off this page altogether. >>> The “Normal” Usage and Scripting and Programming sections could be moved >>> to the Using GnuCash page, and the Error Searching section should be moved >>> below to the Support Options section, or to the page on filing a bug. >>> >>> Moving on, Installation should similarly be modified: >>> >>> {BEGIN}---------------------------------- >>> >>> 2. Installation >>> Installation instructions for the different operating systems under which >>> GnuCash operates are included below. >>> 2.1 Linux >>> • Debian, Debian packages >>> • Gentoo >>> • Mandriva >>> • RedHat: FC5, RHEL4, CentOS4.3, RHEL5 / SL5. >>> • SuSE >>> • Slackware >>> • Ubuntu >>> >>> 2.2 Windows >>> • GnuCash runs on Windows. Download the binary package from >>> sourceforge.net. >>> >>> 2.3 Mac OS X >>> • GnuCash runs on Mac OS X. Download the binary package from >>> sourceforge.net. >>> • For compiling GnuCash on Mac OS X, see MacOSXInstallation and >>> specific MacOSX/Quartz tips. >>> >>> 2.4 Other Operating Systems >>> • FreeBSD >>> • Solaris >>> >>> {END}---------------------------------- >>> >>> NextSupport Options modifications: >>> >>> {BEGIN}---------------------------------- >>> >>> 3) Support Options >>> If you read the relevant parts of the pages above and are still stuck >>> with a problem or only wish to give some feedback, you can contact us in >>> several ways. >>> >>> 3.1 Current discussion >>> • Mailing Lists. Most users will probably contact the GnuCash >>> user community through the appropriate language user mailing list >>> (gnucash-user, gnucash-de, gnucash-nl, gnucash-it, gnucash-es, gnucash-fr, >>> gnucash-br). >>> Additional information can be found at >>> wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists. >>> • IRC Chat. Some users may wish to use IRC chat, usually in >>> english, as the quickest way to get answers. >>> >>> 3.2 External support pages >>> These external support sites have subsections related to Gnucash. They >>> are not maintained by the gnucash team, so there is no guarantee on the >>> correctness of the information you will find here. >>> • Stack Exchange. Includes a forum on money with "gnucash" tagged >>> questions. >>> >>> 3.3 Feature requests and bug tracking >>> • Bugzilla. GnuCash's bug database for error reports and >>> enhancement requests. >>> • Uservoice Forum. For more general feature requests. >>> >>> 3.4 Third party tools >>> Several users have published tools to work with Gnucash. >>> >>> {END}---------------------------------- >>> >>> Note that “Third Party Tools” isn’t about support, but I can’t figure out >>> where it would fit on this page. Should there be a main section for “Other >>> Resources”? >>> >>> >>> Finally, Developing for GnuCash: >>> >>> {BEGIN}---------------------------------- >>> >>> 4) Developing for GnuCash >>> You may also want to check out http://www.gnucash.org/ for the latest >>> news. >>> >>> This part of the wiki is intended to become the main repository of >>> GnuCash developer documentation. Some formerly static pages have been moved >>> here from the Website http://www.gnucash.org, but the move is not yet >>> complete. Some remaining static pages may be out of date. Wherever a wiki >>> article disagrees with a static web page on the Website, the wiki article >>> here is more likely to be correct. >>> >>> 4.1 Getting involved in the project >>> The GnuCash Project is a volunteer-driven organization. We need your help >>> to survive and grow, to help others and to help the Project. >>> There are many ways to contribute your knowledge and experience. >>> Contributing to GnuCash identifies a number of ways to get involved. Below >>> are general ways. >>> >>> 4.2 Mailing Lists >>> Subscribing to the mailing lists, and asking and answering questions >>> there, is an excellent way to begin contributing the the success of >>> GnuCash. See the Mailing lists wiki page for more. >>> >>> 4.3 Filing Bugs and Enhancement Requests >>> Improvements and fixes can be submitted using the Bugzilla bug tracker; >>> more general suggestions can be made via the uservoice pages. See {link} >>> for more. >>> >>> 4.4 Developing the Documentation >>> • Documentation Update Instructions. This page describes the >>> process to change both the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide and the Help >>> Manual. >>> • Doxygen Documentation. The Doxygen source documentation system >>> and its wiki page. >>> >>> 4.5 Translating the Documentation >>> • Translations gives an overview of this process, but please keep >>> an eye on the Translation Status. >>> >>> 4.6 Developing the Application Code >>> 4.6.1 Policy >>> • Our Development Process >>> • Coding Standards >>> • Testing >>> >>> 4.6.2 Procedures >>> • Git access >>> • Building GnuCash from source code. >>> • Notes about the Graphical User Interface aka GUI >>> • Some notes about the GnuCash XML format for the XML Backend. >>> • The schema for the SQL Backend. >>> >>> 4.6.3 Other Development Notes >>> • How to improve or add new Account Hierarchy Templates. >>> • Reminders for the Project Administration >>> • Special events >>> • There was a Bounty Program in June / July 2013 >>> • GSoC Google Summer of Code >>> >>> 4.6.4 Future developments >>> • Our Release Schedule >>> • Future Roadmap >>> • A general edited list of requested enhancements: WishList >>> • Particular enhancements: >>> • Concept Guide >>> • Budgets >>> • Credit Notes >>> • Old discussions about enhancement requests that have been >>> implemented. >>> • Upgrade from 1.8.9 to 1.8.10 and HBCI online banking >>> support >>> • Discussion about the License >>> >>> {END}---------------------------------- >>> >>> Under Future Developments, I think that the Particular Enhancements and >>> Old Discussions could be eliminated. Given that the WishList page says that >>> it is irrelevant, perhaps it should go too (not to mention the entire page). >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel _______________________________________________ gnucash-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
