Don, Perhaps it is not clear, but my proposed section 1 would include all the different types of documentation. For example, 1.3 would link to the FAQ. People here would get directly to each of these areas from this page. David
On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 5:03, doncram<[email protected]> wrote: Thanks for your reply to me. Right, I have to agree that what is on the main page needs to be simple, and can't link to multiple versions of the Help manual or of the Tutorial and Concepts Guide. A different page about documentation in the Wiki should list all the separate versions, however, to inform any of us trying to develop them, or trying to understand why one user says they do see or don't see something odd. Your point that "for Linux users, the docs are not included in the base package, but must be installed separately" should be stated, for example. However, I still think the main page should not basically say "for other documentation, see this documentation page at the website" when that target only lists the Help manual and the Tutorial and Concepts Guide and gives no other documentation, and then goes off into non-documentation like email lists and IRC. And I do think the FAQ on the Wiki, at least, if not any searchable interface to the email archives, should be considered part of documentation and mentioned in the main page. Again, I think if you and I could edit a "sandbox" version of the mainpage, we could sort all this out, and anyone could review to see that it all works, and then an administrator could easily copy it over to the mainpage. I meant to ask anyone to please create such a sandbox page so we could do that, by my previous email reply (which i think went to just you, until i just forwarded a new copy to gnucash-dev. Could someone please open a page at http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox for me and David T. to edit at. :) I am not allowed to create a new page. Or I can wait a few more days and see whether I automatically get rights to create new wiki pages, which I was told may happen after being emailconfirmed for a week. Cheers, --Don On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:22 PM, David T. <[email protected]> wrote: On May 27, 2017, at 12:41 AM, doncram <[email protected]> wrote: I think the suggested proposed page is good. I do have a few changes to the proposed version to suggest, including about clarifying what documentation is available, and I'd like for you and me and anyone else to be able to edit, in the Wiki, a proposed new version of the main Wiki page. It's not clear which exact links you mean where you have written "{link}" in a few places. I'd like to be more clear about those, and their labelling. Specifically, I would not recommend linking to the "Documentation" page at the website, which mixes topic of documentation with support, and which omits some documentation. I have no idea how to change the website, but let's try to make the main Wiki page comprehensive and accurate about the Documentation available. Don, The Help link and the Tutorial link would go directly to those docs (e.g. http://www.gnucash.org/ viewdoc.phtml?doc=help & http: //www.gnucash.org/viewdoc. phtml?doc=guide), since they are the officially released materials. The last line of that section would link to http://www.gnucash.org/ docs.phtml. My intention in the Documentation section here is not to include every Documentation permutation of every possibility that might exist; my goal is to provide the best means of getting good information about GnuCash. Linking to the official, current release documentation serves that purpose. I feel that the tendency to be exhaustive results in so much information that the new user is overwhelmed—as, for example your own experience with the Documentation Update Instructions page. Having four entries each for the Help and the Guide IMO is overkill. I would rather have a shorter list that addresses most immediate needs, but points to the other options that are available, for those who need that as well. Section 1.1 in my example does exactly that. I’m not sure what you mean about the Documentation page on the GnuCash website omitting things. As I understand it, there are exactly two official pieces of documentation: the Help Manual, and the Tutorial and Concepts Guide. Both of these are available at the Documentation page on the main website. What is missing? Specific comments on your edits:1) For Linux users, I believe, the docs are not included in the base package, but must be installed separately. Perhaps different wording could be found.2) Development copies of the docs are available from www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml 3) Adding the Guide glossary to my mind is duplicative; we already referred the user to the Guide; they can see the Glossary there. Moreover, the Wiki glossary refers to the Guide glossary at the beginning of the page.4) We could quibble over whether the mailing lists constitute documentation or not. I felt the lists were more support-oriented than documentation oriented, although I conceded that many questions on the list are answered by suggesting the user search the list achives.5) There is no GnuCash-user search interface, beyond Google. David Note that Documentation available includes: Help manual (available within your downloaded GnuCash software, in whatever version that is) Help manual ( http://www.gnucash.org/ viewdoc.phtml?doc=help , with version not identified ) Help manual version 2.6 (specifically available somewhere within the website ) Help manual version latest version in progress (available within GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash? Not available online? Or available somewhere within http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?) Tutorial and Concepts Guide (available within your downloaded GnuCash software, in whatever version that is) Tutorial and Concepts Guide ( http://www.gnucash.org/ viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide , with version not identified ) Tutorial and Concepts Guide version 2.6 (specifically available within the website, somewhere) Tutorial and Concepts Guide latest version in progress (available within GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash? Not available online? Or available somewhere within http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?) Glossary, within the Tutorial and Concepts Guide Glossary at the Wiki, which states that it may have more ( http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/ Glossary ) FAQ at the Wiki Gnucash-user email list archive by month from July 2000 ( https://lists.gnucash.org/ pipermail/gnucash-user/ ) Gnucash-user search interface (available where?)Note "Support" available is different, and includes the email lists and IRC chat. Could someone please create a Wiki subpage at Talk:GnuCash/sandbox (i.e. http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/ Talk:GnuCash/sandbox) where David T. and I and anyone else could edit the proposal? I suggest calling it "sandbox" in parallel to how, in Wikipedia, development of revisions to protected templates is done. When we have a complete version there, fully functional with all links and so on, and have reached some consensus about it being ready (via discussion at Talk:GnuCash and/or here in gnucash-devel), then it will be easy for an administrator to copy it over to the main page. Developing a proposed new version within the Wiki is consistent with the plan envisaged at the Talk page of the main page, which states:Please add your suggested changes here and we will commit them as soon as possible (usually in less than a few hours).--Cstim 04:53, 27 January 2006 (EST) But I think it is helpful to have a complete new version in a Wiki page, ready to be copied over, rather than requesting changes piecemeal on the Talk page or on the gnucash-devel email list. It is too cumbersome to request them that way, and requested change might not work, because it hasn't been demonstrated in a sandbox. I would develop the sandbox if someone would please create a sandbox page. :) cheers, Don On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 2:30 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel <[email protected]> wrote: I would like to propose substantial changes to the Wiki landing page (https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki /GnuCash <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki /GnuCash>), a page I can’t edit. I apologize in advance for the length and complexity of this email, but that’s the price to pay for control. For ease of analysis, I have put {Begin}--------------- and {END}------------------- around the proposed wiki text. I should also note that there are many minor edits in my texts, beyond the higher-level reorganization. Finally, I include comments about changes in a section immediately after that section. Now, on to the edits! First off, the complexity of the page recommends an opening table of contents with the following (linked) top level headings: 1) Available Documentation 1.x) Wiki Translation 2) Installation 3) Support Options 4) Developing for GnuCash This table of contents should include secondary headings as appropriate. Note that I propose demoting the Wiki Translation section as a subsection of Available Documentation, since the wikis are, after all, a part of the documentation. I wonder whether there is a better way to handle this, though. I recognize that it is important to get speakers of other languages to their native language sites, but I wonder if there is a way to mimic what www.gnucash.org does, with language links at the top? Additionally, I recommend promoting Installation to a primary level since this is a subject that comes up regularly, and this will bring this always-contentious issue into more prominence. Stylistically overall, the page needs bullet entries to begin with a name of the entity being described. For example, under Wiki Translation, the bullets should begin with “German Language Wiki,” “Spanish Language Wiki,” and “Portugese Language Wiki.” This convention should be applied consistently in each section, and will allow the table of contents to make sense. Under Available Documentation, I propose the following: {BEGIN}----------------------- -------------- 1. Available Documentation 1.1 Official GnuCash Documentation. GnuCash offers two major pieces of documentation: • The Help Manual {linked} - a quick reference manual for specific tasks, and • The Tutorial and Concepts Guide {link} - an in-depth guide to the concepts. It is highly recommended to read at least the first chapters of the guide. For the latest documentation (i.e., unstable releases of the documentation), or to get documentation for other languages or earlier releases, see the Documentation page on the GnuCash.org website {link}. 1.2 GnuCash Wikis (Parts of) this wiki have been translated into other languages or contain information for one specific language only. • The German Wiki {link} de/GnuCash Deutsche Wiki-Seiten, im Entstehen. • The Spanish Wiki {link} es/GnuCash Wiki español. • The Portugese Wiki {link} pt/GnuCash Sítio Wiki em Português, em andamento. 1.3 The GnuCash FAQ {link} contains the collection of frequently asked questions about GnuCash, including administration, accounting, and glossary questions. 1.4 Using GnuCash collects real life experiences using GnuCash. You may find (user) solutions here that are not covered by the documentation. 1.5 The Wiki Glossary explains some often used terms, with additional terms useful for developers, documentation writers, and translators. 1.6 More Specific Topics [NOTE: I think this needs re-thinking generally; I believe these pages should be linked in elsewhere altogether. In the interest of moving the discussion along, I have kept them here, but see below] • "Normal” Usage • Keyboard Shortcuts • Using Scheduled Transactions • Online Banking: Setting up OFXDirectConnect in GnuCash 2 and AqBanking (FinTS/HBCI) • Trading Accounts (New since 2.3.8/2.4.0) • Scripting and Programming • How to create some Custom Reports • Python Bindings • Notes about the C API • The GnuCash API • Error Seaching • Logging messages and filtering detail. • Getting a Stack Trace. 1.7 External Documentation Resources • GnuCash Quick Start Guide For Business Users. • Also, business users might be interested in a book by PacktPub, UK: GnuCash 2.4 Small Business Accounting, by Ashok Ramachandran. • List to external international documentation and a somewhat outdated list of available online documentation. {END}------------------------- --------- I recommend that the section currently in Documentation called “Some more specific topics:” should be moved off this page altogether. The “Normal” Usage and Scripting and Programming sections could be moved to the Using GnuCash page, and the Error Searching section should be moved below to the Support Options section, or to the page on filing a bug. Moving on, Installation should similarly be modified: {BEGIN}----------------------- ----------- 2. Installation Installation instructions for the different operating systems under which GnuCash operates are included below. 2.1 Linux • Debian, Debian packages • Gentoo • Mandriva • RedHat: FC5, RHEL4, CentOS4.3, RHEL5 / SL5. • SuSE • Slackware • Ubuntu 2.2 Windows • GnuCash runs on Windows. Download the binary package from sourceforge.net. 2.3 Mac OS X • GnuCash runs on Mac OS X. Download the binary package from sourceforge.net. • For compiling GnuCash on Mac OS X, see MacOSXInstallation and specific MacOSX/Quartz tips. 2.4 Other Operating Systems • FreeBSD • Solaris {END}------------------------- --------- NextSupport Options modifications: {BEGIN}----------------------- ----------- 3) Support Options If you read the relevant parts of the pages above and are still stuck with a problem or only wish to give some feedback, you can contact us in several ways. 3.1 Current discussion • Mailing Lists. Most users will probably contact the GnuCash user community through the appropriate language user mailing list (gnucash-user, gnucash-de, gnucash-nl, gnucash-it, gnucash-es, gnucash-fr, gnucash-br). Additional information can be found at wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_ Lists. • IRC Chat. Some users may wish to use IRC chat, usually in english, as the quickest way to get answers. 3.2 External support pages These external support sites have subsections related to Gnucash. They are not maintained by the gnucash team, so there is no guarantee on the correctness of the information you will find here. • Stack Exchange. Includes a forum on money with "gnucash" tagged questions. 3.3 Feature requests and bug tracking • Bugzilla. GnuCash's bug database for error reports and enhancement requests. • Uservoice Forum. For more general feature requests. 3.4 Third party tools Several users have published tools to work with Gnucash. {END}------------------------- --------- Note that “Third Party Tools” isn’t about support, but I can’t figure out where it would fit on this page. Should there be a main section for “Other Resources”? Finally, Developing for GnuCash: {BEGIN}----------------------- ----------- 4) Developing for GnuCash You may also want to check out http://www.gnucash.org/ for the latest news. This part of the wiki is intended to become the main repository of GnuCash developer documentation. Some formerly static pages have been moved here from the Website http://www.gnucash.org, but the move is not yet complete. Some remaining static pages may be out of date. Wherever a wiki article disagrees with a static web page on the Website, the wiki article here is more likely to be correct. 4.1 Getting involved in the project The GnuCash Project is a volunteer-driven organization. We need your help to survive and grow, to help others and to help the Project. There are many ways to contribute your knowledge and experience. Contributing to GnuCash identifies a number of ways to get involved. Below are general ways. 4.2 Mailing Lists Subscribing to the mailing lists, and asking and answering questions there, is an excellent way to begin contributing the the success of GnuCash. See the Mailing lists wiki page for more. 4.3 Filing Bugs and Enhancement Requests Improvements and fixes can be submitted using the Bugzilla bug tracker; more general suggestions can be made via the uservoice pages. See {link} for more. 4.4 Developing the Documentation • Documentation Update Instructions. This page describes the process to change both the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide and the Help Manual. • Doxygen Documentation. The Doxygen source documentation system and its wiki page. 4.5 Translating the Documentation • Translations gives an overview of this process, but please keep an eye on the Translation Status. 4.6 Developing the Application Code 4.6.1 Policy • Our Development Process • Coding Standards • Testing 4.6.2 Procedures • Git access • Building GnuCash from source code. • Notes about the Graphical User Interface aka GUI • Some notes about the GnuCash XML format for the XML Backend. • The schema for the SQL Backend. 4.6.3 Other Development Notes • How to improve or add new Account Hierarchy Templates. • Reminders for the Project Administration • Special events • There was a Bounty Program in June / July 2013 • GSoC Google Summer of Code 4.6.4 Future developments • Our Release Schedule • Future Roadmap • A general edited list of requested enhancements: WishList • Particular enhancements: • Concept Guide • Budgets • Credit Notes • Old discussions about enhancement requests that have been implemented. • Upgrade from 1.8.9 to 1.8.10 and HBCI online banking support • Discussion about the License {END}------------------------- --------- Under Future Developments, I think that the Particular Enhancements and Old Discussions could be eliminated. Given that the WishList page says that it is irrelevant, perhaps it should go too (not to mention the entire page). ______________________________ _________________ gnucash-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.gnucash.org/mail man/listinfo/gnucash-devel _______________________________________________ gnucash-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
