On 12/02/2018 18:57, Alen Siljak wrote:

Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 at 7:34 PM
From: "Wm via gnucash-devel" <gnucash-devel@gnucash.org>
To: gnucash-de...@lists.gnucash.org
Subject: Re: price.date, transaction.post_date and neutral time

On 12/02/2018 14:27, Alen Siljak wrote:
     I am currently separating the Asset Allocation logic into its own
     Python package, for direct use (cli) and potential library reuse
     between GnuCash Portfolio and an Android app (perhaps an add-on for
     MoneyManagerEx or who knows where it leads).

MoneyManagerEx is single entry and will never get approval in the double
entry community.  I like they way they do reports, but their
understanding of accounting is broken.

True but, as a maintainer of MMEX for Android app, I have already implemented 
Asset Allocation module there. The mobile app served me well for years by 
providing transactions in .qif files, which GnuCash also handles well. So, it 
remains my mobile app of choice for the moment, in combination with GnuCash.

That is interesting. There has been quite a lot of enthusiasm for mobile / gnc interaction. Have you written about this before and I missed it ? If MMEX for Android is working well with gnc I think you should make a wiki entry and ignore my view on MMEX as an accounting app.

Aside: I am completely confused how MMEX for Android could be used for Asset Allocation, MMEX doesn't understand Assets and Liabilities and Equity! Looking at the forums, the dev's of MMEX haven't realised that prices aren't available from Y! any more, etc. Crazy. If the MMEX for Android app is moving beyond MMEX itself and may be working better with gnc then please let us know,

What I would like to do, is extract the AA logic from the app, implement in 
some platform-neutral way (python?) and use on desktop and mobile. Since it is 
not complex, there is no reason for GnuCash not to implement the same concept. 
After all, it simply takes user-set allocation and compares to the quantity of 
the various commodities owned, calculating their current value by using their 
current price. Hence the need to have Allocation and Price elements.

Asset Allocation is indeed simple, the problem is that no two people agree on how to do it :)

Further, most AA models are USA biased, I don't think gnc needs any more USA bias and any model that includes a stock allocation along the lines of "domestic / foreign" is rubbish if you live outside of the USA so let's not go there! [1]

The ledger-cli AA approach works for me because I say what my AA is and the sums just work. I can copy and paste the output into a spreadsheet and see a pie chart, I can make my AA as detailed or top down or bottom up as I like. It is flexible not prescriptive. As soon as you start coding any of that into an app like gnc you lose the flexibility and start telling people "do AA like this or that". In essence you are saying "I'm right, you are wrong". I disagree with that.

The problem is that AA is like Budgeting, we agree it should be done but not how or why or what the point is. For that reason I ask that the gnc db is more accessible and that AA and Budgeting are ripped out of the main application.

Am I making sense yet?

I am arguing *strongly* that any personal view AA or Budget should *never* be included in the main gnc app.

We spoke about this before.  gnc is a bad platform for trading, end of

I was not in any way referring to trading but to reusing the price database 
file/schema. But it seems that it would be too much trouble for such a small 
component so nevermind.

gnc is a bad place to start if you want a comprehensive price db

gnc uses the price db for valuing stuff. it is *not* a good way of recording historic prices of commodities in general. the purpose of the gnc price db is for *you* to know about *your* stuff rather than finding out about stuff you have never owned.

if you really want to know and keep the prices of everything (which is a dumb thing to desire) then get a broker account <-- they aren't cheap.

for a sanity check, I am certain the good people that maintain the code that allows us to get prices do *not* try to maintain a complete db of prices themselves. there is, quite simply, too much information.

     I'm wondering what the opinion here in the project would be about such
     an idea in terms of reuse and/or tools for populating and reading the

My advice is don't go there.

I still need to read the latest available prices from somewhere. I could use 
GnuCash book, of course, but I hate to pollute it with a bunch of prices that 
don't have real use inside GnuCash anyway. Actually, I'd prefer not to download 
any prices into my GC book apart from the ones that are generated automatically 
on conversion. And even those I'd prefer to clean up from time to time.
I believe I'll do all the price-sensitive calculations outside GC by reading 
from a separate database (or another source).

Prices for most traded things are available on a daily basis for free.
Immediate prices (seconds and minutes) are very expensive.
Complete historic prices can be expensive but are usually free if you can see beyond someone else's opinion <-- that is sometimes called reading the news, btw.

     I will definitely be creating a separate project for this, just hoping
     someone else is interested.

There is lots of scope in other projects, I don't like people forcing
one to be another

Hm, that gives me a few ideas already. One thing I keep forgetting is to check if perhaps someone has a similar project already.

I noticed that too, always good to see if someone else has done the work :)

Or I could simply try fetching and caching the latest prices for all symbols on 
startup. And to support offline calculations, I'd still need to save data to a 
db. Something to be worked-out
My advice is to not attempt that. There are major financial companies that can't keep up with moment by moment pricing, if you try you will lose. Use your brain for something else.

Anyway, it would be nice to see Asset Allocation module in GnuCash.

As above I think it would be dreadful if AA was included in gnc.

Also, gnc doesn't have a mechanism that allows modules to be plugged in or not.

The current implementation is just two tables. But I'm not sure if it would 
satisfy everybody right now.
The only other AA implementation I found is in ledger

you haven't been looking, there are hundreds of AA implementations, maybe you mean you haven't found many that agree with your preconceptions ? AA is often about preconceptions.

> but I have not tested it properly because my exported book doesn't balance in ledger due to mismatch in handling capital gains transactions between GC and ledger. :(

Heh, you just outed yourself as a bad trader :) A "good" trader doesn't care about capital gains :)

[1] relative economy size is the reason why USA based AA models fail for the vast majority of people that don't live in the USA, duh!


gnucash-devel mailing list

Reply via email to