Ah. I missed the carryover part. That does complicate things. Sorry for the noise.
David T. On Jan 24, 2024, 6:55 PM, at 6:55 PM, Mattia Rizzolo <mat...@mapreri.org> wrote: >Here we don't do LT/ST, but it's only possible to offset losses up to >the end of the 4th year after the loss was realized. Meaning that 2019 >losses are now in stone. Besides, one offests losses by fist pickin >the >furtherst year first, so it's good to know how much is left to offset >from each given year for each broker (it's common practice in Q4 to >look >at what's left over from 3-4 years before and evaluate what to do to >not >lose the credit). > >See the screenshot of what I got right now, for example. >Wouldn't obtaining these numbers, by putting both losses and gains in >the same bucket and then using the standard-provided reports, be >unnecessarily hard? > > >Again, note that I'm not using this to compute my own taxes, that's >done >by the brokers already (I'm nowhere near the volume where it would make >sense for me to take over that "job" - which I could fwiw), but I do >want my data to match theirs. > > >On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 06:32:08PM +0300, David T. via gnucash-user >wrote: >> Likewise not an accountant. >> >> In the US (my tax authority), gains are taxed at two rates (long term >and short term), and gains and losses offset each other. I maintain >separate income accounts for short term and long term gains/losses >(income accounts because I'm an optimist!). These are placed in parent >accounts for the brokerage (since each broker sends its own tax >reports). There's no need to separate by year, since a saved report >gives me last year's data instantly. >> >> To summarize: >> >> Income >> - Realized gains >> - - Broker 1 >> - - - LT gains >> - - - ST gains >> - - Broker 2 >> - - - LT gains >> - - - ST gains >> >> David T. >> >> On Jan 24, 2024, 5:22 PM, at 5:22 PM, Patrick James ><patrickjame...@comcast.net> wrote: >> >Again keeping in mind that I am NOT a tax authority. >> > >> >Now that we're on the equity side, let's move forward with your >> >tracking. >> > >> >I very much doubt that you need two separate accounts for the losses >> >and gains; from what you're suggesting, you need to match some gains >> >with some losses. I would match these in a single account "XXXX >Capital >> >Gains" where it is known that CR is "gain" (the expected/desired >> >'normal' balance) and DR is "loss." Just labeling an account >"Capital" >> >is difficult when looking back/keeping track of what is what. And >one >> >need not label it "Capital Gain or Loss," as the "or loss" part is >> >understood based on the balance in the account. >> > >> >Given what you are requesting, I'd have something like this: >> > >> >Capital Gain >> >----2017 Broker 1 >> >----2017 Broker 2 >> >----2018 Broker 1 >> >----2018 Broker 2 >> > >> >You would know what is best in terms of subaccounts. >> > >> >Then run reports if you need some specific information, which could >> >include separating the losses from the gains based on the debits and >> >credits. >> > >> >Keep in mind that I'm providing some ideas about how to use GNUCash >as >> >a tool, and I have no idea about your tax requirements. >> > >> > >> >> On 01/24/2024 3:11 AM PST Mattia Rizzolo <mat...@mapreri.org> >wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Thank you Patrick for your suggestion! >> >> >> >> I see what you are suggesting here… Mh. >> >> >> >> It could easily become very messy as the rules for offsetting >gains >> >is >> >> fairly annoying here: gains some financial instruments can offset >> >losses >> >> only from some other particular financial instruments (i.e., >"gains" >> >> from the dividends can *never* be offeset, or losses from stocks >> >can't >> >> be offset by gain on ETFs, etc)… Plus the fact that I'd need to >> >split >> >> losses by years and brokers… it's going to be annoying to have an >> >> account clearly state the "correct" credit I'm due this way. >> >> >> >> >> >> But I think you may have pointed me to the right direction, of >> >keeping >> >> everything within the equities, here is what I've done: >> >> (yes, I realize that income/expenses are "the same thing") >> >> >> >> Expenses >> >> |- Capital Loss >> >> |- Broker 1 >> >> |- 2017 >> >> |- 2020 >> >> |- 2021 >> >> |- 2023 >> >> Income >> >> |- Capital Gain >> >> >> >> So, I changed my losses to be posted against the proper "capital >> >loss" >> >> account instead of being a negative gain, and then I'm posting the >> >> future gains as compensation of that loss (and only for the part >that >> >> can be compensated). >> >> This way indeed the balance of the Broker1 account does match with >> >what >> >> the broker is showing me. >> >> >> >> >> >> Do anybody believe I may be missing something out when recording >> >capital >> >> gains/losses this way? >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 03:43:03PM -0800, Patrick James wrote: >> >> > Let's start with your best bet is to work with your tax >> >professional as to how best to keep track of what's needed for >taxes. >> >> > >> >> > In the US, what you call a "credit" generally would not be an >asset >> >account. The "credit" would be a potential offset to some future >gain, >> >if there is any future gain, so I would leave all this over on the >> >equity side. >> >> > >> >> > Day 0 Purchase: >> >> > >> >> > Stock (asset) $100DR >> >> > Cash $100CR >> >> > Purchase of 100 shares of Stock Y for $1 per share >> >> > >> >> > Day 365 Sale: >> >> > >> >> > Cash $90DR >> >> > Capital Gain $10DR >> >> > Stock (asset) $100CR >> >> > Sale of 100 shares of Day 0 Stock Y for $0.90 per share. >> >> > >> >> > NOTE: One hopes that capital gains has a CR (gain) balance, >rather >> >than the DR balance above (loss). >> >> > >> >> > Later, if there was some sale for a gain, then the CR recorded >to >> >Capital Gain would offset some or all of the DR. >> >> > >> >> > Also note that matching the shares as I have done above is not >> >always as simple as this single stock sale where all shares are >> >purchased on a single day and the entire holding is sold a year >later. >> >> > >> >> > Again, talk to your tax professional about how to best keep the >> >records necessary for tax compliance. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > On 01/23/2024 1:43 PM PST Mattia Rizzolo <mat...@mapreri.org> >> >wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Hello, >> >> > > >> >> > > I'd like some input on how to best record a tax credit due to >> >capital >> >> > > loss, and possibly the following usage of such credit. >> >> > > Disclaimer: I'm not doing this for anything worth, it's a >> >personal book >> >> > > that nobody but me sees, so I can take a few liberties and not >> >follow >> >> > > whatever regulation to the letter. Besides, I have no formal >> >education >> >> > > on accounting. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > The case is the following: >> >> > > >> >> > > 1 buy security A, cost $100 >> >> > > 2 buy security B, cost $100 >> >> > > 3 sell security A, get $90 >> >> > > 3a → record $10 loss >> >> > > 3b → get a $10 tax credit on following capital gains >> >> > > 4 sell security B, get $120 >> >> > > 4a → record $20 gain >> >> > > 4b → offset $10 from 3b >> >> > > 4c → pay tax on the remaining $10 (26%, $2.6 over here) >> >> > > >> >> > > I reckon all jurisdictions have something similar in concept, >all >> >with >> >> > > their differences in details. >> >> > > >> >> > > This is a tad further complicated by the fact that each broker >> >has its >> >> > > own "bucket" of credits (can't comingle losses and gains >across >> >> > > different brokers). Also the credits expire after 4 years, so >I >> >should >> >> > > record under which year they matured. As such, I expect an >> >addition to >> >> > > my CoA, such as: >> >> > > Assets >> >> > > |- Credits >> >> > > |- Capital Loss credits >> >> > > |- broker 1 >> >> > > |- 2020 >> >> > > |- 2021 >> >> > > |- 2022 >> >> > > |- 2023 >> >> > > |- 2024 >> >> > > |- broker 2 >> >> > > |- 2022 >> >> > > ..... >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > I've been using gnucash for ~3 years now, but I always >> >procrastinated on >> >> > > figuring out the 3b/4b steps, just posting the resulting net >tax >> >> > > transaction as computed by the broker. >> >> > > For me it's really not obvious what's the opposing account >from >> >where >> >> > > the money should come/go... >> >> > > How do people do it here? :) >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Thank you for all the hints! >> >> > > >> >> > > -- >> >> > > regards, >> >> > > Mattia Rizzolo >> >> > > >> >> > > GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 > >> >.''`. >> >> > > More about me: https://mapreri.org > : >> >:' : >> >> > > Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri > >> >`. `'` >> >> > > Debian QA page: >https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia >> >`- >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > gnucash-user mailing list >> >> > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> >> > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> >> > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> >> > > ----- >> >> > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> >> > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > gnucash-user mailing list >> >> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> >> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> >> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> >> > ----- >> >> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> >> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> regards, >> >> Mattia Rizzolo >> >> >> >> GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 >> >.''`. >> >> More about me: https://mapreri.org : >:' >> >: >> >> Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. >> >`'` >> >> Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia >`- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> gnucash-user mailing list >> >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> >> ----- >> >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> >_______________________________________________ >> >gnucash-user mailing list >> >gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> >To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> >https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> >----- >> >Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> >You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> _______________________________________________ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> ----- >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > >-- >regards, > Mattia Rizzolo > >GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 .''`. >More about me: https://mapreri.org : :' : >Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. `'` >Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia `- > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >gnucash-user mailing list >gnucash-user@gnucash.org >To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >----- >Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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