Hello GeorgeI am inclined to agree with you on this issue. The problem as I see it is that the open source community consists of a lot of fantastically clever programmers, but few designers and even fewer technical authors who can put together decent documentation (especially in several different languages). Worse, it is considered a rite of passage to have to trawl through hosts of poorly designed websites, post to forums for answers that you don't understand when you get them, and to learn the terminology before you can get going. This is fine if you are technically inclined, not so good if you are the average Joe whio is just trying to get a job done. I have been using Linux and other open source software including Gnumeric for a few years now, so I am kind of used to it now, but I well remember - and occasionally still experience - the frustrations you describe.The web-page you describe http://projects.gnome.org/gnumeric/downloads.shtml would be much better organised as followsSelect your operating system:Windows Linux - UbuntuLinux - Red HatLinux - SuseLinux - other..Mac OSUnix....with each link taking you to a separate page of options and instructions to install Gnumeric on your particular operating system.By the way, if you are using Windows you need to right-click on the link:Microsoft Windows There is a build of 1.9.1 available...Select *save to disk* to download the file gnumeric-1.9.1-win32-20080625.exe to your hard drive, locate it in Windows Explorer and double click on it to install.If this doesn't work, please post again.RegardsJohn
--- On Tue, 11/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: gnumeric-list Digest, Vol 55, Issue 9 To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 7:30 PM Send gnumeric-list mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnumeric-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of gnumeric-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Another try to get a response (George Dell) 2. Re: Another try to get a response (Andreas J. Guelzow) 3. Re: Another try to get a response (Lutz M?ller) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:34:29 -0800 From: "George Dell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Another try to get a response To: "Adrian Custer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Adrian, Thank you for engaging me on this issue. While I am a deep believer in "freedom" as you mention it - I also need to be able to have people (who understand none of the technospeak and specialized words), able to get to an installed usable version. Even your answer leaves my head swimming. In going to the web page "Getting Gnumeric" the new, excited, but unknowledgeable potential user is confronted with an immediate technospeak problem. Pushing the "Get Gnumeric Now" produces nothing now. It produces a confusing explanation of possible sources, but nowhere to just Get Gnumeric. The difficulty appears to arise when we consider *what* a user should obtain after clicking the button. I agree with this. Clearly this would need to be specific to the desktop of each user doing the clicking. Ideally, for the two dominant closed desktop environments, we would have installable artifacts since those users have been trained to look for such bundles. Perhaps we could do something for the most common of the desktops. E.g., Microsoft Windows. I do not know what a closed desktop environment is, nor an installable artifact. In particular, my students are simply desktop and laptop users, who have not had any training "to look for such bundles." I do not know what a bundle is nor what it may refer to. For the open desktop systems, user expectations are different---most get their software from their installer systems, which of course differ greatly from system to system, with no common "install gnumeric" command. I assume when you say open desktop systems, you are referring to something like linux. I do not know what an installer system is. Where can we get these required installer systems in order to get Gnumeric on the desktop? Unfortunately, for the closed systems, gnumeric does not have any mac bundle and the windows bundle is not yet official but does have a link which is perhaps not prominent enough. (Official support for the windows port leads to lots of complications, e.g. release specific dependencies and systematic handling of the gtk stack.) Portable Gnumeric has worked on all macs except one, which was an older computer. What is a "Windows bundle" and where is this link within it. I have no idea what a dependency is, nor what systematic handling is, nor what a gtk stack is, nor why an understanding of this will help me help students get Gnumeric on their desktops. For the open systems, we start needing system specific responses. How do we go about getting these? So yeah, freedom is messy and we may loose the impatient---that's may be all right in the long run if you believe, as I do, that freedom is contagious, all the best, Adrian Again, I hope I do not come across as being flippant. I truly believe in the freedom you speak of. If it is intended that open source be available only to those who are very very patient, or are willing to learn all the technical things of which you speak - then we will continue to lose the 98% of the people we declare "not patient enough." One final thought. Since nearly all of my students have windows on their standalone desktops and laptops, perhaps if simple instructions were available for that computer type . . . . Thank you for your patience with this numbskull teacher of statistics, graphics, and economics in real estate applications. George Dell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Custer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "George Dell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:34 PM Subject: Re: Another try to get a response > George Dell wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I am instructor who regularly starts people on the Gnumeric path. But there is a recurring problem which strikes at the very growth potential of this wonderful open-source product. >> >> I want to thank all those who are so dedicated to this project. It has been a boon to my students, My request here is only my small attempt to make Gnumeric more successful! >> >> The problem -- >> In going to the web page "Getting Gnumeric" the new, excited, but unknowledgeable potential user is confronted with an immediate technospeak problem. Pushing the "Get Gnumeric Now" produces nothing now. It produces a confusing explanation of possible sources, but nowhere to just Get Gnumeric. > The difficulty appears to arise when we consider *what* a user should > obtain after clicking the button. > > Clearly this would need to be specific to the desktop of each user doing > the clicking. Ideally, for the two dominant closed desktop environments, > we would have installable artifacts since those users have been trained > to look for such bundles. For the open desktop systems, user > expectations are different---most get their software from their > installer systems, which of course differ greatly from system to system, > with no common "install gnumeric" command. > > Unfortunately, for the closed systems, gnumeric does not have any mac > bundle and the windows bundle is not yet official but does have a link > which is perhaps not prominent enough. (Official support for the windows > port leads to lots of complications, e.g. release specific dependencies > and systematic handling of the gtk stack.) > > For the open systems, we start needing system specific responses. > > So yeah, freedom is messy and we may loose the impatient---that's may be > all right in the long run if you believe, as I do, that freedom is > contagious, > > all the best, > adrian > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: </archives/gnumeric-list/attachments/20081118/8b43f947/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:42:24 -0700 From: "Andreas J. Guelzow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Another try to get a response To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 09:34 -0800, George Dell wrote: > > Hello Adrian, > > Thank you for engaging me on this issue. While I am a deep believer > in ?freedom? as you mention it ? I also need to be able to have people > (who understand none of the technospeak and specialized words), able > to get to an installed usable version. Even your answer leaves my > head swimming. Installing gnumeric is usually trivial and you don't even need to go to the gnumeric web site. If you are using Debian you just select that program like any other package for installation (using the synaptic pacakge manager accessible via System->Administration), similarly in Ubuntu or any other modern operating system. (Considering your question I suppose you are using MS Windows. In that case you chose an operating system that is designed to avoid having competitors software installed easily. I suggest you get another operating system.) Andreas > > > > In going to the web page "Getting Gnumeric" the new, excited, but > unknowledgeable potential user is confronted with an immediate > technospeak problem. Pushing the "Get Gnumeric Now" produces nothing > now. It produces a confusing explanation of possible sources, but > nowhere to just Get Gnumeric. > > > The difficulty appears to arise when we consider *what* a user should > obtain after clicking the button. > > I agree with this. > > Clearly this would need to be specific to the desktop of each user > doing > the clicking. Ideally, for the two dominant closed desktop > environments, > we would have installable artifacts since those users have been > trained > to look for such bundles. > > Perhaps we could do something for the most common of the desktops. > E.g., Microsoft Windows. > > I do not know what a closed desktop environment is, nor an installable > artifact. In particular, my students are simply desktop and laptop > users, who have not had any training ?to look for such bundles.? I do > not know what a bundle is nor what it may refer to. > > > > For the open desktop systems, user > expectations are different---most get their software from their > installer systems, which of course differ greatly from system to > system, > with no common "install gnumeric" command. > > I assume when you say open desktop systems, you are referring to > something like linux. > > I do not know what an installer system is. Where can we get these > required installer systems in order to get Gnumeric on the desktop? > > > Unfortunately, for the closed systems, gnumeric does not have any mac > bundle and the windows bundle is not yet official but does have a > link > which is perhaps not prominent enough. (Official support for the > windows > port leads to lots of complications, e.g. release specific > dependencies > and systematic handling of the gtk stack.) > > Portable Gnumeric has worked on all macs except one, which was an > older computer. > > What is a ?Windows bundle? and where is this link within it. I have > no idea what a dependency is, nor what systematic handling is, nor > what a gtk stack is, nor why an understanding of this will help me > help students get Gnumeric on their desktops. > > For the open systems, we start needing system specific responses. > > How do we go about getting these? > > So yeah, freedom is messy and we may loose the impatient---that's may > be > all right in the long run if you believe, as I do, that freedom is > contagious, > > all the best, > Adrian > > > > Again, I hope I do not come across as being flippant. I truly believe > in the freedom you speak of. If it is intended that open source be > available only to those who are very very patient, or are willing to > learn all the technical things of which you speak ? then we will > continue to lose the 98% of the people we declare ?not patient > enough.? > > > > One final thought. Since nearly all of my students have windows on > their standalone desktops and laptops, perhaps if simple instructions > were available for that computer type . . . . > > > > Thank you for your patience with this numbskull teacher of statistics, > graphics, and economics in real estate applications. > > > > George Dell > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Custer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "George Dell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:34 PM > Subject: Re: Another try to get a response > > > > George Dell wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> I am instructor who regularly starts people on the Gnumeric path. > But there is a recurring problem which strikes at the very growth > potential of this wonderful open-source product. > >> > >> I want to thank all those who are so dedicated to this project. It > has been a boon to my students, My request here is only my small > attempt to make Gnumeric more successful! > >> > >> The problem -- > >> In going to the web page "Getting Gnumeric" the new, excited, > but unknowledgeable potential user is confronted with an immediate > technospeak problem. Pushing the "Get Gnumeric Now" produces nothing > now. It produces a confusing explanation of possible sources, but > nowhere to just Get Gnumeric. > > The difficulty appears to arise when we consider *what* a user > should > > obtain after clicking the button. > > > > Clearly this would need to be specific to the desktop of each user > doing > > the clicking. Ideally, for the two dominant closed desktop > environments, > > we would have installable artifacts since those users have been > trained > > to look for such bundles. For the open desktop systems, user > > expectations are different---most get their software from their > > installer systems, which of course differ greatly from system to > system, > > with no common "install gnumeric" command. > > > > Unfortunately, for the closed systems, gnumeric does not have any > mac > > bundle and the windows bundle is not yet official but does have a > link > > which is perhaps not prominent enough. (Official support for the > windows > > port leads to lots of complications, e.g. release specific > dependencies > > and systematic handling of the gtk stack.) > > > > For the open systems, we start needing system specific responses. > > > > So yeah, freedom is messy and we may loose the impatient---that's > may be > > all right in the long run if you believe, as I do, that freedom is > > contagious, > > > > all the best, > > adrian > > > _______________________________________________ > gnumeric-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnumeric-list ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:30:00 +0100 From: Lutz M?ller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Another try to get a response To: [email protected] Cc: George Dell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 21:53 -0800, George Dell wrote: > In going to the web page "Getting Gnumeric" the new, excited, but > unknowledgeable potential user is confronted with an immediate > technospeak problem. You are probably expecting something like http://www.mozilla-europe.org/en? Regards Lutz ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ gnumeric-list mailing list [email protected] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnumeric-list End of gnumeric-list Digest, Vol 55, Issue 9 ********************************************
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