goanet-digest Wednesday, May 1 2002 Volume 01 : Number 3914
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In this issue:
Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 12:11:02 +0000
From: "James Almeida" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
>>3.Richest men in the world are Muslims? What has this got to do with
>>Arundhati Roy or the Gujerat problem. Maybe Im just too dumb to
>> understand.
>
>Incidentally I said "richest man" and not "men" and the person is Azim
>Premji, CEO of WIPRO.
Folks,
Just a clarification. I think Mr. Premji held the title of world's richest
man for all of three (or was it four?) months when the WIPRO stock was in
those stratospheric levels during the recent "(ir)rational exhuberance" of
the US stock market. Those interested may want to check the Forbes
(www.forbes.com) website since they keep a track of such indicators! :-)
As far as the rest of the post, pretty much recycled stuff. In the absence
of any specific data to substantiate claims/counter-claims, this discussion
will essentially peter down to the "he said-she said" variety. For example,
take the statement often bandied around "thousands of Hindus are killed in
Kashmir everyday." Anyone having an iota of common sense would think hard
before swallowing such nonsense, given that it flies in the face of reason.
And that, even when it's being offered as hyperbole! Assurances such as
"Trust me, I know what I'm talking about" is hardly a way to build
credibility in a discussion, especially when these assurances are preceded
by hype and erroneous "facts" (BTW, isn't that an oxymoron?)! :-)
Best,
James
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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 17:16:22 +0400
From: "Sunila Muzawar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
>From: "James Almeida" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
>Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 12:11:02 +0000
>
>Folks,
>
>Just a clarification. I think Mr. Premji held the title of world's richest
>man for all of three (or was it four?) months when the WIPRO stock was in
>those stratospheric levels during the recent "(ir)rational exhuberance" of
>the US stock market. Those interested may want to check the Forbes
>(www.forbes.com) website since they keep a track of such indicators! :-)
Nice of you to tell us that that you read the Forbes. And yes I think most
of us know this fact. Incidentally I said "one" of the richest men in the
world so thanks for emphasising this point ;-)
>As far as the rest of the post, pretty much recycled stuff. In the absence
>of any specific data to substantiate claims/counter-claims, this discussion
>will essentially peter down to the "he said-she said" variety. For
>example,
>take the statement often bandied around "thousands of Hindus are killed in
>Kashmir everyday." Anyone having an iota of common sense would think hard
>before swallowing such nonsense, given that it flies in the face of reason.
>And that, even when it's being offered as hyperbole! Assurances such as
>"Trust me, I know what I'm talking about" is hardly a way to build
>credibility in a discussion, especially when these assurances are preceded
>by hype and erroneous "facts" (BTW, isn't that an oxymoron?)! :-)
>
>Best,
>James
Also nice to know that you did not display that "an iota of common sense" to
understand what I really meant. ;-) But I agree that I did not word it
right. For the record, I meant Hindus are killed almost everyday in Kashmir
with the total number killed ranging into thousands over the last decade or
so.
Unfortunately, maybe the data collected on these deaths is not kept the way
that will readily provide the info on the Hindu deaths. For some people who
like to verify things via statistics (which some idiot may have simply
created from nowhere for all you know ;-)....after all who will audit these
things) that may be disappointing but not necessarily untrue. Everyday one
reads in the newspapers that at least one or two Hindus are killed daily and
sometimes it is a whole village that is massacred or many like 8 or 10 are
shot at a time. It does not take a rocket scientist to fathom how many that
would be in the last ten years. And to doubt that because no statistical
source is quoted is the height of cynicism. :-) Or maybe it is only
ignorance which causes that doubt. :-) After all detailed news on Hindu
deaths in Kashmir do not make it to the newspapers in New York every
day...probably never. But if you are really interested do make the time and
try and find out. And if you do then give us an insight into what you
discover.
And to brush away the rest of the posting as "pretty much recycled stuff"
shows how readily a mind refuses to accept the ignominy of the situation. It
is precisely that which I wanted to address. Unfortunately, it looks like
although my post did scratch the surface, it did not really dent any minds.
Never mind. I still have hope. After all and I repeat... what is life
without love and hope ? :-)
Cheers,
Sunila
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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:24:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tariq Siddiqui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
Without going into the details of the laundry list that Sunila has
provided, I would just like to know that is there a qualifier that exists
that requires any writer to include all of those remarks below when
writing on Gujarat and India?
Sunila, please take the time to answer this one. If your answer is in the
affirmative, then why don't you include and require Arundhati Roy to
also include the following:
1. The atrocities of the Indian Armed forces in Kashmir and Punjab.
2. The killings of thousands of Muslims in Nellie, Bhagalpur, Kanpur,
Bhiwandi, Bombay, Ahmedabad (69).
3. Statements of Ashok Singhal and Giriraj Kishore.
4. The selective targetting of Muslim businesses in previous riots (as if
one rich Muslim makes up for the rest).
...and on and on.
I fail to understand why you keep on choosing to be the apologist for a
regime and people who know no morals. Your defense is nothing but
a pathetic attempt to sugar coat one of the worst atrocities in India.
To think that if some one does not talk of other crimes, they condone it,
just goes on to show how narrow minded your thought process has been
reduced to.
I think it is about time you woke up to the reality that people do not
have a habit of talking about twenty thousand atrocities at the same time,
even if it is solely for the purpose of "context". If today, I choose to
condemn the government of Gujarat for its crimes, that does not mean I
condone all that is going on in China. It is quite dissappointing to note
that despite being a student of Sharada Mandir, your thought process
continues to be incoherent.
- -Tariq
On Wed, 1 May 2002, Sunila Muzawar wrote:
> Nice article and thanks for posting it George. It does seem more balanced in
> many respects as compared to most of the articles we have seen previously.
> Arundhati is a beautiful and eloquent writer.
>
> Wish she would also break out into such eloquence over the plight of
> thousands of Hindus killed in Kashmir every day;
>
> Wish she would be an activist for the 0.8 million Kashmiri Pandits displaced
> and living in pitiable conditions for the last ten years;
>
> Wish she would reject publicly the Church sponsored terrorism in the
> North-East;
>
> Wish she would also work towards ending the caste wars in UP and Bihar;
>
> Wish she would denouce the Imam of Jama Masjid for giving a sort of call for
> civil war to disintegrate the nation;
>
> Wish she would give a call for the revamping of the madrassas in India which
> for some reason is okay for Pakistan to do but a controversial issue for
> India to address;
>
> Wish she would urge the legislators to remove the perpetuation of the
> British divide and rule policy by implementing an uniform civil code;
>
> Wish she would insist on the removal of special status for the state of
> Kashmir;
>
> Wish she would highlight how India is the only country in the world that
> provides a subsidy for Haj pilgrims - something which is considered
> unislamic by Saudi Arabia - somethings which Saudi Arabi has urged India to
> remove but which the Vajpayee govt. did not and instead raised the subsidy;
>
> Wish she would mention that one of the richest persons of the world and the
> richest Indian is a Muslim;
>
> Wish she would go deeper into the reasons why Adivasis and Dalits who are
> certainly not the VHP/Bajrang Dal supporters took part in large numbers in
> the Gujarat riots;
>
> Wish she would work towards removing the slur of harijan from the face of
> Indians;
>
> Wish she would focus on the development of the economy in order to eliminate
> polticians using communal vote bank politics;
>
> Wish she would berate the media for the half truths and the untruths that
> they print at crucial times e.g. Vajpayees's speech in Goa;
>
> Wish she would question the integrity and responsibility of the media in
> fanning the communal riot flames with biased reporting;
>
> Wish she had decried the press and people who blamed the Hindus for church
> bombings engineered by the Pakistani ISI;
>
> Wish she had examined the role of the Congress and others in the mass
> killings of the Sikhs after Indira Gandhi's assasination;
>
> Wish she had got more upset about the normal Muslim community and especally
> women being so backward;
>
> Wish she had shed a tear for the little child that was beaten to death
> because she was so immersed in play that she forgot to bow to the local
> Thakur;
>
> Wish she would get angry about the links SIMI had with Al Qaeeda and denouce
> them totally;
>
> Wish she had written such eloquence when Godhra happened and before the
> revenge riots followed;
>
> And wish so many things. Because if she and the rest of us reacted with the
> same outrage as we have reacted to the Gujarat riots I am completely sure
> that the situation would never have reached the deterioration point that it
> did. Unfortunately, we believe in only supporting some causes and some
> communities and some people and some issues. And while it is fashionable to
> deplore the Gujarat riots it is incomprehensible to find such depths of
> emotion for all the other atrocities in India.
> Cheers,
> Sunila
>
>
- --
Tariq Siddiqui
[ This Space for Rent ]
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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:38:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tariq Siddiqui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Arundhati Roy - Part I, II, III
On Wed, 1 May 2002, gilmen30 wrote:
> My, My, My, What a diatribe against all the minorities in this great
> country! I certainly dont want to get into a slanging political and
> communal match, but of all the convoluted subjects above, I have
> picked only 4 for clarification, so can I ask you Sunila to please
> elucidate....
> 1.Thousands of Hindus killed in Kashmir everyday? That would make
> 20,000 in 20 days? Can you provide Govt.of India figures of
> civilians, police and paramilitary forces killed over the past 1 year
> in the valley, before you make such sweeping allegations. I am not
> asking you for their religion.
> 2.Church sponsored terrorism in the North East? I have travelled in
> all the 7 states and this is the first time in my life I have heard
> this term. Please explain the politics in this region and what the
> church has to do with it. And whether it is the Baptists, Catholics
> or other sects who are involved.
This Church-sponsored terrorism is another lie that was put out by the
VHP/BJP that Sunila has lapped up. Increasingly, it has been repeated more
than a thousand times, that the apologists for the Saffron Brigade have
been parading around parroting it as the gospel.
The North-East problem is a complex one mired in ancient and
colonial tribal, ethnic and religious enmity. To add to that problem is
the lack of land reform, drugs, poverty and arms leads to a volatile
situation that is being exploited by all those who can.
When the apologists of the VHP speak, just remember these words of
Goebbels: "If you repeat a lie a thousand times, it becomes the truth"
- --
Tariq Siddiqui
[ This Space for Rent ]
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End of goanet-digest V1 #3914
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