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Dominic, � I will deal with Mr. Correia-Afonso's comments separately, but I want to acknowledge and thank you for your far more even-handed point of view. � However, I hope you agree with me that truth without context and perspective is no longer truth. � Regarding the Jews in Palestine, aren't we forgetting the Jews that have been in Palestine since the old Testament?� Aren't we forgetting the Nazis and the deliberate attempt at genocide called the Holocaust in Europe which is why the European Jews fled to Israel in the first place? � Yes, some militant Jews claim all of Palestine on Biblical grounds, and are akin to the militant Hindu extremists, but surely you know that the vast majority of Jews in Israel, as well as the Israeli government, do not, just as the vast majority of Indians support a secular India?� So why make such a sweeping statement and then throw in some other ancient history that can only obfuscate the debate on Palestine? The problem is thorny enough as it is. In my humble opinion, the modern history of the area begins with the partition in 1947, not with the old Testament, just as the modern history of India begins in 1947, not with the Mahabharata. Everything before that is interesting but hardly useful any more, other than to whip up people's emotions. � Not only did the Palestinians and other Arabs reject Israel in 1947-48, their Charter to this day has not been changed to accept Israel. I'd like to know why. JUST LAST WEEK, after Arafat's burial in Ramallah, their militants confirmd once again that they will never accept Israel.� They almost killed Mr. Abbas simply because he asked for a cessation of hostilities. Among the Arab countries only Egypt and Jordan and a few smaller Gulf States have recognized Israel, which is why Arafat's pre-burial funeral service was held in Cairo. � I disagree with much of what Israel does, especially their diabolical settlements policy.� However, if armed militants had been actively attacking your entire community since 1948, right after the Nazis had tried to wipe out your entire community in Europe, what options would you have if you had no other place to run to? What would you do if there was some group out there that had the objective of eliminating your entire country? Israel's critics like Mr. Correia-Afonso and his supporters totally ignore such key elements of the problem, whereas you have astutely observed that the failure to accept Israel's right to live in peace and security is a problem that the Palestinians have to deal with if they are to have a viable state of their own. Their continued attempts to eliminate Israel and all the Jews in Palestine will lead to more of the deadly attacks and counter-attacks that we would all like to see stop. O filho de Albuquerque <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:########################################################################## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ########################################################################## > > Please understand that the so-called Israelis are in fact European > Jews who have forcibly occupied vast tracts of Palestinian Arab lands, > illegally constructed settlements therein and driven out those who have > been living there for a couple of thousand years into squalid refugee > camps where they live under sub-human conditions. Can they be expected > to meekly accept such blatant injustice? This is a truth that cannot be denied , the Jews are as bad as the Arabs in this case . If the Jews can claim posession of most of Palestine , because their God supposedly promised them Palestine ,surely the Christians can hope to reclaim most the present Arab Countries like Iraq, Egypt ,Syria and Jordan and most Turkey ,with Constantinople (now called Istanbul by the muslim occupier) which was the seat of Eastern Christianity. If the Jews existed in Palestine 2000 years ago , surely the Muslims have been living there for atleast the last 1200 years , and have some legitimacy . What is unfortunate and also TRUE is that in 1947 , the Jews had agreed to the equal partition of Palestine between Arabs and Jews , but this was rejected by the ARABS who even refused to acknowledge the right of the Jewish nation to EXIST . So in a way the Arabs "asked for it". > > As I have stated in my post, every human life is precious and > any unnecessary loss of such a life is to be decried. Mario rightly sheds > tears for the lives of Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian suicide > bombers. I hope he spares a thought for the thousands of Palestinian > civilians killed by Israeli air attacks and tank fire in civilian areas. Tank fire in Civilian areas : This is interesting , Here it is unfair to blame the Jews alone . It is the Arabs who first attack Israeli foot patrols , and then go and hide in Civilian Built up areas , Mosques , and Churches . If the Arabs are so Brave , and ready for Martyrdom, why do they hide behind women ,children , as well as in mosques when the battle has started ? Why should any Israeli General in his right senses order his boys to enter these so called civilian areas without heavy armour , when they could get killed . Israel reserves the right to use all means , and all force at its disposal to fight this war . > Comparisons are odious, as they say, but whatever attrocities the Palestinians > Arabs may be accused of perpetrating on the Israelis pale into insignificance > when compared with the systematic persecution of the Jewish race by > European Christians over two thousand years, culminating in the Holocaust. > Is it right for Palestinian Arabs to be paying for the crimes of European > Christians? sa This claim is ridiculous and DANGEROUS , you have alleged that Jews were persecuted by Christians, for over 2 millenia !! Adolf Hitler did what he did , not as a Christian , but as a follower of Nazism! Hitler was as Anti-Christian as Anti-Jew , and has as much innocent Christian blood on his hands as Jewish blood . Its sad that in this post-christian world obsessed with being politically correct that the Jews get off with a lot of nonsense . The Jews are not the only people to have suffered a Genocide /Holocaust in history , the Armenians ,Cambodians , Rwandans have suffered as much . Its just that the Jewish Holocaust has got a terrible lot of publicity , and the Jews never miss a chance to play on the guilt of the Western countries for their ignorance of the Jewish plight in Nazi Occupied Europe . Again regarding Jewish persecution by Christians , the only incident that can possibly be cited is the Spanish Inquisition , but even over here it was not just the Jews who were singled out , but all peoples and idealogies that threatened the existence of a Unified ,Catholic , Spain that were purged , and ordered to leave the country , this included among others , the Moors , Albeginesse Heretics , and Jews . The Spanish Inquisition was Fair in the sense , these undesirables were given a chance to leave a country to which NEITHER THEY , nor THEIR IDEAS belonged to in the FIRST PLACE . As far is i know Torquemada did not organise concentration camps for the liquidation of Jews or Muslims . Nor did they claim that they had a God Given right to invade and occupy arab lands . Indeed Senor Afonso , Truth will Prevail !! . No one is spotless in this world of 101 Dalmations . Dominic Fernandes
