Hi Chris Clearly, we see the situation on a minimum wage (the debate with Goa roots), from opposite ends of the spectrum. However, if I am right, isn't the USA legislature currently pressing hard positively on this issue for the simple reason that trickle down economics simply doesn't work and the divide between the well off and poor gets greater by the day? There is much research indicating that the greater such a divide, the less happy and more dysfunctional a society becomes.
Yes, I do know the arguments for 'pure' capitalism but not even the USA has such a model although supposedly the leader of the capitalist world. It subsidises much and on health alone, provides a safety net to millions without private insurance. As per your arguments, it should, strictly speaking, let such people rot rather than depend on the beneficence of the State. But it doesn't thankfully. Such a safety-net element is the kernel of Western European civilisation/society with socialistic underpinnings even if the word socialist is virtually dead from non use! However, I accept that there is an element of an infantilising process for the feckless in a welfare state that has to be guarded against. Perhaps if folks from the USA visit some of the 'social welfare' states particularly like the Scandinavian countries as well as others in Europe, they would change their minds. If there is a choice between American begrudging 'welfare' provision and the up front welfare models of Canada, Australia, and Western Europe, for me, the civilised society would not be the USA I'm afraid and I made such an informed choice sometime ago. The millions migrating to the USA, especially from Asiatic countries have not had the choice that I had in this important respect and many close friends of mine (ex East Africa), currently in the States do appreciate their vulnerability, especially on the health issue, when they compare their lot with ours, however imperfect ours may be. However, I am delighted we can have a civilised discussion even though our ideological positions are poles apart---for now! Regards Cornel PS Please see small additional point below. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Vaz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Bleeding labour dry/to Cornel (3). > Crnel- > > I think it is morally wrong for the government or a socialist/progressive > welfare state to take my hard earned money and hand it over to the > indolent > unless the person has a physical handicap or is unable to take care of > himself. CORNEL: It may well be pretty christian to take money from the better off through progressive taxation to help those disadvantaged through no fault of their own. Also, please note that in the UK and most of Europe we do have a market economy. Mrs Thatcher, a disciple of the late Milton Friedman tried hard to push the UK to follow the American economic model and we can say we tried but were not persuaded and readily got rid of Thatcher when she least expected the push! Finally to say that the Western economies are stagnating compared to the USA, is totally incorrect. Many of us genuinly wish the highly buoyed economy (especially in construction) slowed down a bit especially with Christmas goodies appearing in stores as early as September! _______________________________________________ Goanet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
