Hi Cornel,
At the outset let me state, what you have written below about my views is a
total mis-characterization of my writings on social culture in general and Goan
culture in particular. Clearly we are not talking the same thing. This was my
reason for previously ending my dialog with you. I thought your recent "golden
silence" on Goanet gave you some time to get some new ideas. But you are back
to the same old topic. If your sense of humor is intact, the saying goes "one
cannot teach an old dog new tricks." You know the konkani version of this
idiom. - the dog and its tail.:=)) Making mis-representations, then to seek
clarifications; and asking questions is an old trick to drag somebody into a
controversy.
There are many definitions of "Culture". And when it comes to "Culture" in
reference to social identity, what precisely it encompasses is not well
circumscribed. After much reading, I found a good all encompassing statement
of "Identity or Culture" by Professor Schein of Massachusetts Institute of
Technology in his book "Organizational Structures and Leadership".
As referenced in my wife's book "Amchi Khobor (Our News) Inside Goa", Schein's
definition of Identity or Culture, reads as follows: "Patterns of shared basic
assumptions that the group learned as its solved its problems of external
adaptation and internal integration, that has worked well enough to be
considered valid and therefore to be taught to the new members as the correct
way to perceive, think and feel in relation to these problems." To continue
from another section of Amchi Khobor, "in society, tradition defines a common
baseline, creates mutual insights, consensus and alignment." To know the rest
as it relates to Goan society, you and others need to read the book, from which
much of below is borrowed.
To identify / designate an ethnic group, academics and policy makers use
several criteria alone or in combination. Many of these are again outlined in
Amchi Khobor. Native and Diaspora Goans may feel maintaining our identity is
not important. Yet in a few years, some Indian academic, to obtain his PhD will
conduct a scientific survey of Goans only, to report that Goans do not meet the
academic criteria of an IDENTIFIABLE "Ethnic Group". And hence, Goans are not
deserving of a separate language or state.
Cornel's description and prescription below (not my quote of his statements) is
a sure pathway for Goans to loose their identity and statehood. Cornel
inadvertently, yet succinctly stated the perils to Goan society. For now Goans
meet the definition of a society which is "large self-sufficient collection of
people who share and pass on a common heritage to the next generation, have
behavior patterns that govern interactions and occupy a given territory."
((from Amchi Khobor)
Contrary to the naysayers to preserving GIC, like Antonio and Cornel, the
entire spectrum of Goans by-and-large now and in the past have spoken the same
language, have the same history, live in the same geography and do the same
cultural practices at different milestones in life. Contrary to the two
authors, lower and schedule castes and tribes in Goa have a GIC. And many,
including me, will say they have a more authentic GIC. My wife wears a sari or
salwar kameez for Indian functions. She along with other Indian women in our
city in upstate New York, young and old; and all across the socio-economic
spectrum, wear their Indian outfits with pride, grace and elegance. This
applies to women who are Hindu, Catholic, Muslim, Parsi etc.
While religion does have a major overlay, Goan / Indian social culture /
identity has little to do with religion - at least to the progressive Goans /
Indians. Those who look at Goan / Indian "Identity / Culture" merely in terms
of religion, are frankly in a "Stuck Mode" and fail to appreciate our values
and way of life. And that may include Antonio and Cornel. So while they try to
present themselves as modern because they despise some aspect of the old,
(which we all do), most modern Goans and Indians want to be multi-faceted. They
have learnt to acquire the new values while also appreciating and holding on to
the old way of life. These modern Indians are contrary to the "old dog new
tricks."
Those who like Antonio's criteria of GIC, all I can say he / they need to be
progressive, yet NOT "throw the baby out with the bath water." Some with their
own criteria of GIC, do not know what GIC is, other than some aspects that they
can demagogue. If the two of you (and others who) deny the existence of GIC
today (or would like to see it dead), can your please state YOUR own ethnic
identity in three words? We could do without your usual English sophistry (see
below).
I do not know where Antonio resides. Likely Cornel will claim his ethnicity is
British! If that is his (or other diaspora Goans') response, I would reply -
British is your nationality! English / British is not your ethnicity. I am
making this preemptive reply because in reality, I do not want to continue this
conversation, which has been discussed endlessly on Goanet. I have nothing to
add, if as you state below, your ethnicity is "wonderful open world society".
I will continue this dialog if Cornel has something new to add, instead of the
same old self-plagiarized caste practices of Goans. From below, it suggests he
has a very limited view of Goan history. I have concluded that any dialog with
him on Goa soon deteriorates to caste practices, with the same old statements
recycled as "something new". Like my mother would say, his "sodanchem kerem
kerem kenache kobar zainam." I would appreciate if in future Cornel did not
drag me in his posts with third parties to bolster his less than academic
presentations.
Regards, GL
----------- CORNEL DACOSTA
I humbly suggest that the problem with Gilbert Lawrence's posts re Goan
identity is his highly simplistic assumption that everyone once knew his/her
hierarchical place in Goan (presumably Christian) society and that this should
be embedded and continued. With much respect, this is an utter figment of the
imagination. There has always been resistance to whatever prevailing status quo
has been around, especially when underpinned by things like injustice, force,
and bogus rationales for a hierarchy based on an accident of birth epitomised
by the rotten underbelly of caste. How, I ask, is it possible for one to be so
unfamiliar and blinkered about Goa's social and political history to believe
the parochial notion that "everyone knew their place in society", when clearly,
the literature on this issue indicates considerable social volatility in
thought and deed throughout Goan history. This is the reality of Goan history
and I therefore respectfully invite
friend Gilbert to counter this view with evidence.
Today's societies are remarkably fluid rather than static and surely, only an
utter traditionalist, conservative and reactionary would want to argue for the
continuation of "our legacy" which is code for a society based on caste and
endogamy in an increasingly wonderful open world society of which we are heirs
thankfully, and our young are seemingly integrating into enthusiastically.
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