rui nuvo responding to Cornel da Costa (inter alia) wrote: > 1: Yes, I do belong to the social caste system in which I happen to be a Brahmin. 2: My culture is Hindu. And I am a Christian. 3: Much of what you say I have heard on Goanent ad nauseam eg Brahmins killing Dalits and raping their women > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:24:44 -0400 From: "J. Colaco < jc>" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > May I suggest to all you good people that you keep this "caste" nonsense out of the 2008 Convention in Toronto? > >From what I understand of Goa and our culture, these international conventions are the last vestiges of Goemkarponn left. The rest of Goa and Goan culture is being wiped out. Please, let us do everything to preserve our Goan culture - and not waste time on useless and divisive issues. For one, Caste plays NO major role in Goa today. Leave the Convention in peace, please. > Mario observes: > I'm not going to presume to advize Kevin and Francis et. al. what to include or exclude from their convention, but c'mon, Jose, discussing "caste" is "nonsense", the issue is "useless and divisive" ???? Hardly, though I will agree with you that it may not belong in such a convention depending on what its mission is. > I don't know what you consider yourself, Jose, but you sound like a REAL Bamon, with all due respect. Only REAL Bamon's express irritation and impatience at discussions about "this caste nonsense" and refer to it as a "useless and divisive issue". > I submit that ending any form of discrimination is divisive to someone, but that doesn't make discussions about ending it nonsense. > If your notion of preservation of our imaginary "Goan culture" includes support for a continuation of the diabolical caste system, then no, it is not a culture that deserves to be continued as is. > Besides, hasn't Santosh illustrated with detailed examples that there is no such identifiable "Goan culture" that is shared by ALL Goans in real life? > All that those who identify with Goa have in common is a Goan ancestry. > Jose wrote: > I submit that the practise of the Caste System makes one a Hindu - It is definitely unChrisitian. ...as the type of discrimination is contrary to the life and teachings of Christ. > Mario responds: > So the practice of caste "makes" one a Hindu, hanh? > Does this mean that Charles Correia whom Rajdeep Sardesai recently described as a PROUD Saraswat Brahmin is really a Hindu? I'm sure that would come as a shock to him. > Does it mean that the small handful of Goan Christians on Goanet who express some or considerable irritation with our calls to abolish this abomination because they identify with a caste and use it in their decisionmaking are all really Hindus? > No, they're not. They are Christians subscribing to an obsolete system where those who consider themselves to be from a "higher" caste apparently need a system of social superiority for their own self-serving benefit. Whatever its origins, the ONLY reasons for its continuation is rank discrimination and an air of assumed superiority. > We have seen some on Goanet express themselves in favor of this diabolical system using subtle code, like "Goan identity", which apparently MUST be preserved - along with the caste system of course. > We see our friend, Rui, who, to his credit, proclaims his caste on his sleeve - and probably on his forehead as well - put a new spin on it with this illogical proclamation, "My culture is Hindu. And I am a Christian." I wonder what Christ or Pope Benny think about this self-serving piece of sophistry. > There is no question that the Catholic Church in Goa was complicit in continuing this particular aspect of Hinduism for the most un-Christian of reasons, perpetuating a false sense of superiority by some over others and deliberately ignoring the most fundamental teachings of Christ. > The Church could have easily stamped this out over the last 450 years if they really wanted to. > Jose writes: > I must say that I believe that enough 'leveling' of the playing field has taken place since 1947/1950. I am opposed to any further "reservations" on the basis of Caste / Tribe etc especially in the high tech and highly specialised fields. "walk in the park" fields Ok ...but no further. From now ....only Merit please. > Mario responds: > I agree that the playing field is leveling, but, as we can see just from these discussions and the recent "honor" killings in Haryana, it is not level enough. > Regarding reservations policies, while I understand why they were instituted, they are fundamentally flawed because they use current discrimination to ostensibly fight past discrimination, making them a win-lose situation depending on whose ox is being gored. This policy gives admissions to many who are unqualified and unable to meet the standards, leading them to either drop out later because they cannot cope, or graduate as sub-standard professionals. > The goal of a civilized society should be equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. If the latter is the goal it brings everyone down towards the least common denominator. > In my never humble opinion, a sound system would be to provide remedial programs for whoever needs them so that those candidates who are interested and determined to achieve a higher level of education become capable of meeting the same standards that should be required for all candidates, regardless of which kind of higher education they choose to follow, whether in a professional field or not. > If they are unable to meet the set standards after remedial education they should not be admitted to the level to which they aspire. > This would result in a true meritocracy. > I think, even Jose may agree. >
