Hello Rui I am really happy that you have responded to my post in reply to yours on the Brahmins. I am a democrat first and foremost and would fight for your right to discuss the Brahmin issue anywhere provided civilised language is used of course. It is unfortunate that Bosco de Mello articulated alarm that some might raise issues to do with caste among the Christian Goans at the Convention in Toronto. However, his position may provide a clue why he seems to be so uncomfortable over even trying to be evenhanded re the issue of caste on Goanet.
Since, the start of 2008, he has definitely allowed the publicity of posts from caste adherents but blocked the anti-casteists attempting to reply to such posts. This has happened to me repeatedly and you may be rather surprised to hear that, three replies (including mine) were blocked when you presented your substantial and somewhat intriguing post on the Brahmins. It is only when I made a fuss and checked with eight Goanetters privately that, there really was not much in my post to you that, required it to be blocked that Bosco most grudgingly relented for the second time this month on a caste issue. I hardly need to tell you that there were strong words between us privately and I know for sure that this is only the beginning of a long war not about caste but about censorship on Goanet that would make Gobbels, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot blush if they were around. If I exaggerate, here is a £50 prize by cheque to the person who can provide a persuasive explanation for the following: While Rajan was 'admonished' by several Goanetters for his intemperate content on Goanet, he was allowed to gloat over it further. Simultaneously, a little post of mine was blocked without explanation. It had simply said to Santosh Helekar about one of Fr Ivo's posts thus: "I honestly get weary of Fr. Ivo's confusion over the remit of science and the remit of religion. Your answer below is spot on re the manifest confusion contained in his [Ivo's] point below." My £50 cash offer is applicable to Bosco too if he will rise to the occasion! As he has never provided me, Mario and several others a single reason (as permitted in Goanet criteria),why posts are blocked, perhaps a cash offer might do the trick this time! After all £50 is not an unreasonable sum in Canadian dollars! Because of the horrendous problem that anti-casteists face in trying to reply to posts like yours (that I have already welcomed for reasons of democracy in discourse) I have been forced to use strategies like "in using academic style" and capital letters from time to time to distract Bosco from blocking my posts. I would gladly not do this but I sincerely hope you understand my predicament and of several others who are forced to re-submit posts ad nauseam just to make a point. Today, I note with great interest, Mervyn Lobo's despair with Goanet moderation and a bit of history behind it. As I was the first to recently take on, in a big way, this nonsense we call Goanet moderation when it is in fact selective censorship, I look forward to see further developments in this area. And now belatedly, here are some comments in reply to your post to me. I am sorry I did not receive your earlier post in my inbox on Brahmins and the International Convention--hence my expressed curiosity about the issue. However, I will now respond, at least briefly, to some of the points you kindly reiterated to me by interspersing my comments with yours but in upper case simply to distinguish who said what: --- rui nuvo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - I could not make out what you meant by FIRMLY > with your appeal to the moderator. I might have mistaken it for just verbosity but as it is in upper > case perhaps it has an added significance which > would be nice to know. CORNEL: AS I INDICATED, I WAS UNCLEAR WHETHER YOU WERE SERIOUS OR JOKING OVER MATTERS, I WAS KEEN TO ILLUSTRATE THAT, I WAS TAKING A FIRM LINE OVER MY CONTENT---HENCE THE USE OF "FIRMLY" FOR EMPHASIS. > - For readers who need a rough gist of what I said > initially when I first started the thread, I have captured the main elements below. The thread was > targeted to the Brahmin caste group. Here it what I > said: > a) Identity: I come from a culture with a social > structure which is the caste system. Speaking purely for myself I made it clear that I come from > the Brahmin caste. I was addressing the Brahmins > because I understand them best. CORNEL: AS A REASONABLE PERSON I AM SURE THAT YOU WILL AGREE THAT IN ADDRESSING THE BRAHMINS, AS YOU SAY YOU DID, YOU WERE WITTINGLY OR UNWITTINGLY ALSO ADDRESSING THE VAST MAJORITY OF NON BRAHMINS ON GOANET. AGREED? > b) Problems: I touched upon problems that we face as > a global community. I touched upon the problems of dispersion, dilution and social creep. CORNEL: SURELY SUCH PROBLEMS ARE NOT SPECIFIC TO THE BRAHMINS. WOULD YOU AGREE ON THIS TOO? AND BY "SOCIAL CREEP" DO YOU MEAN SOCIAL CHANGE? > c) Solution: I suggested that the Convention would > be an ideal venue for young Brahmins to develop networks to address these and various problems > that confront future generations over time and > space. CORNEL: I HOPE I HAVE ALREADY MADE IT CLEAR THAT I FOR ONE WOULD NOT DISAGREE WITH SUCH A POSSIBILITY--BOSCO ALLOWING OF COURSE! > Now to deal with your conventional academic style > post. I have taken each item in turn. > > In summary I can say much or nearly all of it was > irrelevant to the main topic I set out originally. Much of what you say I have heard on Goanent ad > nauseam eg Brahmins killing Dalits and raping their > women. Some of it was > interesting information... CORNEL: I AM AMAZED THAT YOU SEEMINGLY IGNORE ALL MORALITY ASSOCIATED WITH THE DREADFUL DEEDS BY THE BRAHMINS AGAINST THE DALITS AND OTHER LOW CASTES. IF I WERE IN YOUR SHOES, I WOULD BE THOROUGHLY ASHAMED TO CALL MYSELF A BRAHMIN WHEN THE REPUTATION OF THE BRAHMINS IS ON THE LINE INTERNATIONALLY OVER SO MUCH ETHNIC CLEANSING IN INDIA. > > - OK. I now know what a Convention is. CORNEL: THANKS FOR INDICATING THAT YOU KNOW WHAT A CONVENTION IS ALL ABOUT. I MAY HAVE MISREAD YOU BUT YOU COULD HAVE FOOLED ME OVER THE ISSUE OF PEASANTS ATTENDING OR NOT ATTENDING THE CONVENTION! > - You provide information of Brahmins in power > exploiting others and thE fight for a level playing field. Do you know a country, a business, a group > or individual anywhere where a power base does not > exploit its position. Response not required. CORNEL: I ABSOLUTELY INSIST ON GIVING YOU A RESPONSE! IN ALL SOCIETIES THERE WILL BE POWER BASES COMPETING FOR STATUS AND POSITION IN A PROCESS NORMALLY CALLED 'CONTESTATION'. I HAVE NO QUARREL WITH THIS AS I AM NOT A COMMUNIST WANTING EVERYONE TO BE EQUAL. HOWEVER, I OBJECT IN THE STRONGEST TERMS POSSIBLE TO BRAHMIN IDEOLOGY THAT DEMANDS POWER AS OF RIGHT AND AS ATTRIBUTABLE TO SOME 3% OF THE INDIAN POPULATION FOR ALL TIME. IT FURTER, DEMANDS IT BY MURDERING PEOPLE AND "RAPING THEIR WOMEN" IN YOUR OWN WORDS. WHAT ON EARTH DO YOU FIND SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND IN THE EXPLANATION MARIO AND I HAVE REPEATEDLY PROVIDED TO CASTE ADHERENTS? PERHAPS I SHOULD ALSO PROVIDE A £50 PRIZE FOR A CLEAR AND PERSUASIVE RATIONALE FROM YOU OR ANYONE ELSE WHY THE BRAHMINS OUGHT TO BE AUTOMATICALLY BORN AT THE APEX OF INDIAN SOCIETY AND REMAIN THERE FOR EVER, ESPECIALLY, WHEN MANY HAVE BEEN READILY OVERTAKEN ECONOMICALLY, AND MATERIALLY BY THE VERY PEOPLE DEEMED TO BE INFERIOR TO THEM. THIS TRULY DEFIES LOGIC BUT I PATIENTLY AWAIT YOUR EXPLANATION. PLEASE DO TRY. I MAY EVEN BE TEMPTED TO DANGLE A LARGER PRIZE! > - I am genuinely interested in the geological time > line, extinctions and the evolution of the brain. Maybe that is why I found your analogy hardly > interesting because I don't think the crocodile > survived the dinosaur. CORNEL: I DID NOT PROVIDE THE ANALOGY OF THE CROCODILE AND DINOSAUR TO BE OF "INTEREST" TO YOU. I SIMPLY PROVIDED AN OFTEN REPEATED FACT THAT THE CROCODILE SAW THE DINOSAUR COME AND GO! WHETHER THE DIMINUTIVE BRAIN OF THE DINOSAUR WAS CONTRIBUTORY TO ITS DEMISE IS A CONTROVERSIAL POINT IN NATURAL HISTORY. > - What vacuous arguments you talking about that I > made which suggests to you my small brain size. CORNEL: I MERELY WONDERED SPECULATIVELY WHETHER SO MUCH SUSTAINED INBREEDING OVER CENTURIES AMONG THE BRAHMINS AFFECTED GREY MATTER FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT I CAN NEVER GET A COHERENT AND RATIONAL ANSWER WHY THEY THINK THEY SHOULD BE AT THE APEX OF INDIAN SOCIETY WHILE BRILLIANT MINDS AMONG THE NON BRAHMINS ARE ALWAYS DEEMED TO BE SECOND CLASS IN THE CASTE HIERARCHY---OF COURSE INVENTED BY THE BRAHMINS SOLELY IN THE INTERESTS OF THE BRAHMINS! > > - Yes, I do belong to the social caste system in > which I happen to be a Brahmin. My culture is Hindu. And I am a Christian. CORNEL; RUI PLEASE LET'S GET ONE THING STRAIGHT. A HINDU CAN ASSOCIATE HIMSELF WITH ANY BELIEF SYSTEM INCLUDING WORSHIPPING ROCKS, PLANTS ETC HOWEVER, HE CANNOT BE A BELIEVING CHRISTIAN AND SIMULTANEOUSLY A BELIEVER IN CASTE. THE TWO BELIEF SYSTEMS ARE TOTALLY CONTRADICTORY TO EACH OTHER AND I HAVE SPELT THIS OUT INNUMERABLE TIMES ON GOANET. SO, PLEASE DO NOT FOOL YOURSELF THAT YOU ARE A HINDU AND SIMULTANEOUSLY A CHRISTIAN, I HAVE ALSO SAID REPEATEDLY THAT CHRISTIANITY HAS NO CASTE EVEN IF THE CATHOLIC CLERGY IN GOA PRETEND OTHERWISE AND HAVE BEEN HAND IN GLOVE WITH CASTE FOR HALF A MILLENNIUM. IN SUM, IT'S BEEN REALLY NICE RESPONDING TO YOU RUI BUT UNFORTUNATELY AS SO OFTEN, I FEEL CHEATED IN NOT GETTING A CHANCE TO TAKE ON BRIGHTER MINDS FROM AMONG THE SUPPOSED BRAHMINS! SO PLEASE BRING THEM ON RUI. AS A MERE KUNBI BY CHOICE, I CAN'T WAIT TO DEMOLISH AS MANY POMPOUS BRAHMINS AS POSSIBLE! Regards Cornel
