Wendell Rodricks speaks to author Richard Zimler on his book 'Guardian of the Dawn'.
WR: Your book Guardian of the Dawn is based on the Inquisition in Goa....a topic that is glossed over and not discussed too much. RZ: In every country, politicians and journalists try to avoid discussing the negative aspects of their national history unless they are forced to do so. And so, the Inquisition is largely ignored in Portugal. My impression is that very few people know how it worked – or even care. But I think we owe it to the victims of the Inquisition - tens of thousands of men and women and children – to know how it functioned. I also think that the subject of religious intolerance is extremely relevant to the world today. Fundamentalism – whether Christian, Moslem, Hindu or Jewish – is a great danger to those of us who believe in human rights, democracy and, in particular, freedom of expression. What I find so horrible and hypocritical even today is that many Portuguese still speak of Goa as if it was a peaceful and wonderful place – the exotic and friendly capital of the spice trade. To the Indians who'd been coerced into converting to Catholicism and then tortured to ensure they never practiced any traditional Hindu rituals, it was hardly friendly. It was a nightmare! I'm criticized sometimes for stating that so directly, but it's clear to anyone who does the research that the Indians of Goa lived inside a ruthless religious dictatorship, where any prayer they made to Krishna or any painting of Hanuman in their home put them at risk of being incarcerated for years. They had no freedom of expression or religion. So maybe it was a great place for the Portuguese rulers who became rich by importing and exporting pepper and cinnamon, but it was a territory where any Hindu who had converted to Christianity could be denounced at any time and end up rotting away in prison for many years. WR: The books by Priolkar's and European authors on the Inquisition in Goa, are out of print and not available in book shops. Do you feel this is an obvious attempt to keep the Inquisition out of pubic discussion? RZ: I don't believe there is any conspiracy, but it is very unfortunate that the books aren't easy to find. My impression is that most people in Portugal think that Goa's history is irrelevant to them, since it is no longer part of their Empire. Also, I think that it is hard for them to accept that their ancestors – the conquerors of Goa – behaved brutally toward Indians and kept Goa under a state of siege for 250 years. In a certain way, the relationship of the Portuguese to Goa is not so very different from their relationship with other former Portuguese colonies, such as Angola and Mozambique. How much do the Portuguese know about any of their former colonies in Africa and Asia? Very little, I think. And they know almost nothing about the history of their former colonies prior to the arrival of Europeans. It is as if they still believe that a country's history only begins when it is "discovered" by Europeans WR: What was the worst atrocity in the Inquisition? RZ: The Inquisitors burned people alive for refusing to confess to "heretical" beliefs and for refusing to accept Christ as their saviour. They also tortured prisoners – sometimes for years – without even telling them what specific crime they were accused of. WR: Some Hindus feel that they were targets of the Inquisition but in fact it was the Moslems, the Jews and the recent converts to Christianity..... RZ: The Inquisition was imposed on Goa in order to persecute Hindus, Jews and others who had converted to Christianity. The idea was to keep these converts from practicing their previous faiths. So any sign of backsliding – for instance, of making a puja or whispering a Hindu prayer – became a punishable offence. For even the smallest infraction a person could be arrested, imprisoned and tortured in order to extract a confession of having practiced forbidden rituals. In theory, the Inquisition had no power over Hindus, Jews, or Moslems who refused to convert to Christianity. The problem was that if they didn't convert, they were denied certain rights by the Portuguese. For instance, those who held tight to their Hindu beliefs lost their right to marry freely and were denied certain employments, and they paid higher taxes than the Christians. Hindus were also obliged to attend Church services and were sometimes coerced – even kidnapped – in order to be forcefully baptized. Unfortunately, once Hindus, Jews or Moslems converted, they found themselves subject to the control of the Catholic Church. This made them very vulnerable to persecution; if they were accused of practicing their previous faith, the Inquisitors would have them arrested and imprisoned. Once inside the Inquisitional prison, they had no rights whatsoever and they were completely cut off from their families. I wrote "Guardian of the Dawn" to denounce this crime against humanity. In a sense, the book is my personal vengeance against the unscrupulous, power-hungry Catholic priests of India who imposed a system of torture and murder on the Indians under their rule, who tried to wipe out all traces of Hinduism from Goa. And who almost succeeded! I also think we should never forget that they made a fortune by persecuting Indians, since they confiscated all the property belonging to the people whom they imprisoned. The Inquisition was, in a very real sense, a money-making enterprise for the Catholic Church. WR: In the space between the Se Cathedral and the Bom Jesus was a thriving gold market mainly controlled by Jews. Do you have any information about the trade practiced by Jewish merchants? RZ: No, unfortunately I have been able to find out very little about the Jewish residents of Goa. I hope that someone will one day write a book about this community. WR: Talking about the Bom Jesus and the mortal remains of St. Francis Xavier. Isn't it ironic that someone who is venerated in Goa and much loved by Goans today was actually one of the persons who brought the dreaded Inquisition to Goa? RZ: Yes, it could be called ironic, and it shows you how history is usually told from the point of view of those who win the battles and elections, and not from the point of view of those who lose them. What I mean is, Portugal conquered Goa in 1510 and ruled there for 450 years, so their version of history was the one that was taught to everyone and finally accepted. From the Portuguese point of view, St. Francis Xavier was a hero and a saint. There is, however, another side to the story, the one that the prisoners of the Inquisition might tell if they could speak to us… And it's one that readers will find in my novel. You see, it was St. Francis Xavier who petitioned the Pope and Portuguese king to impose the Inquisition on Goa. And about 15 years after he did so, in 1560, the Inquisition was indeed established. So his petition led directly to the persecution of tens of thousands of converted Hindus, Jews and others. Of course, he was later canonized and made into a saint, and as far as I know, he is still the patron saint of all Catholic missionaries. Sainthood for a man made it possible for the Inquisitiors of Goa to torture and burn former Hindus all the way up to 1812? To me, that is a terrible injustice – an affront to all those who suffered in the Inquisitional Palace. WR: Your other books deal with the atrocities against the Jews in Lisbon... RZ: Yes, I wrote my first novel, "The Last Kabbalist of Lisbon," after discovering that there had been a riot in Lisbon in 1506 in which 2,000 Jews who'd been forced to convert to Christianity were murdered and burnt in the main square. Catholic priests incited the crowds to kill these Jewish converts. None of my Portuguese friends knew anything about this massacre, and their ignorance shocked me. I also found it very disturbing that it wasn't mentioned in textbooks for the Portuguese schools. As I said before, I think it's very important to give voice to the "losers" in history – the men and women who have been systematically silenced. After all, the "winners" don't need novelists like me to tell their story; they have propagandists doing that for them. So when I discovered the massacre in Lisbon, I knew I had to make that the background for a novel. "The Last Kabbalist of Lisbon" turned out to be about a Jewish family living through the murderous riot. Happily for me, the novel became a bestseller in Portugal, and it has been published in about 20 different languages by now. I'm hoping that an Indian edition will be published someday. WR: When you say Catholic priests, it does mean the priests of the time. Most in higher office were Portuguese, Spanish or Italians?? RZ: Most of the priests who ran the Goa Inquisition were Portuguese and members of the Dominican Order, a Catholic religious hierarchy founded in France in the 13th Century. The mission of the Dominicans was to combat so-called heresy (those with alternative views of Christian doctrine). WR: In Goa today we still have a fire-stamping ritual during Easter where people call out "Judeo!" and stamp out a fire at each door step. Are you aware of it? RZ: No, I've never heard of it. WR: Should not the Catholic Church in Goa discontinue this terrible reminder of an obvious holocaust? RZ: To tell you the truth, I no longer expect much from the Catholic Church by way of retribution for the crimes they have committed. It took them 500 years to apologize for the Lisbon Massacre of 1506, so they are obviously not terribly concerned about the feelings of the people they victimized or eager to set the record straight. I think that if the Goan people themselves find the fire-stamping ritual insulting to Jews, and insulting to the dignity of human beings in general, then they should end the practice themselves and not wait for the Catholic Church to act. It's a question of personal responsibility. WR: Richard, what amazes me about your book is that you have never visited Goa and yet one gets a distinct impression as if you spent a year here... RZ: What a wonderful compliment! I wanted to go to Goa, but English and Portuguese friends kept telling me how much it has changed over the last forty or fifty years, and I was worried that some aspect of its present landscape and culture would "infiltrate" the picture I had already formed in my head of Goa at the end of the 16th century. I didn't want to risk any modern details in the book – anything that wouldn't be accurate for the 16th and 17th centuries – so I didn't go. WR: Do you plan a trip to Goa? RZ: I have no concrete plans, but I hope to go there someday. Perhaps someone will invite me to go to a literary festival in India and I can use that as an excuse to go! I'd like to visit so many places in India – Goa, Kerala, New Delhi, Bombay… I'm very attracted to many things there – the mythology, the art, the cuisine – so if I go I'd like to stay for more than just a couple of weeks. WR: Emotionally, do you hate what the Portuguese did to the Goans? Is there any residue of hatred? RZ: What I feel isn't hate, it's anger. I'm angry that the Portuguese priests in Goa were able to terrorize Indians for 250 years – to rule over them as fanatical dictators – without ever being brought to justice. Not only that, but they also enriched themselves in the process. Every gold or silver candlestick in a church in India was paid for with the life of a converted Hindu or Jew. I'm also angry that most of us don't know the name of even one person who was tortured by the Catholic Church. Nearly all the victims have been forgotten. Lastly, It makes me angry that religious intolerance causes so many people to suffer even today. WR: Has the Portuguese Government ever apologised for the Inquisition? RZ: While he was President of Portugal in 1989, Mario Soares apologized for Portugal's miserable treatment of the Jews, but I am unaware of any apology that he or any other member of the government might have offered to the people of Goa or the Hindus of India in general. It may be worth noting that in 2000 Pope John Paul II apologized for many centuries of Church violence and persecution, though he did so without specifically mentioning the Inquisition or the Holocaust. In 2008, José Policarpo, the Catholic Patriarch of Lisbon, apologized specifically for the Inquisition. And yet, if you look on the Internet, you can find that many Catholic organizations around the world still do not believe there is anything to apologize for! Apparently, they remain convinced that torturing Hindus and Jews is the right path toward salvation. WR: Is it not time for the Church in Rome and the Portuguese to apologise for this terrible Inquisition inflicted on simple, harmless people who had no idea what they were up against? RZ: Absolutely. I think it would be a positive gesture for the Pope to go to Goa to ask for forgiveness. And, even more importantly, to vow that the Church will never again act violently against people of any other religion. WR: In your book Tiago ends up as someone who the reader is not too fond of. That is due to the Othello quality you have endowed to the story..... RZ: Tiago is someone who is forced to abandon his moral code in order to fight the evil brought to India by Catholic priests. So he does some pretty terrible things. I didn't necessarily want to make him likeable – though I happen to like him a lot – but I did want to make him understandable. I wanted the reader to see how someone good and kind can do terrible things – even commit murder – if he is pushed too far. As for your reference to Shakespeare's "Othello," I was never satisfied with the reasons that Shakespeare gave for Iago's bitter hatred of Othello. Of course, I'm not criticizing Shakespeare – obviously, he didn't want to tell us. But I thought it would be very interesting to write about what might have gone wrong between Iago and Othello. And that's what I do in "Guardian of the Dawn." Within my narrative, Iago and Othello are called Tiago and Wadi, and I take them back to a time when they were boyhood friends in India. Tiago's hatred for Wadi stems from the time they were teenagers, when Wadi did something unforgivable that is discussed in the novel and that involves Tiago's little sister Sofia. So later in the narrative, when the action of "Guardian of the Dawn" begins to run parallel to the action of Shakespeare's play, the reader understands why Tiago hates Wadi so violently, and why he has developed such a diabolically clever plan of vengeance. WR: As a Goan Catholic, I have no problem embracing the fact that I was Hindu or possibly Goan tribal. But a lot of present day Goan Catholics will be confused as to how to address the entire topic of the Inquisition...... RZ: I can understand that for some Catholics the Inquisition must seem a terrible embarrassment and threat to their faith. I think the important thing, however, is to acknowledge the truth about the persecutions that took place in Goa and elsewhere, and – if one is a Catholic – to vow to never let such injustices happen again. WR: On the other hand here is much that is done by the Catholic Church that is good. Areas like education and Social community work. RZ: I have great respect for the charitable orders of the Church, who do wonderful work amongst the poor and disenfranchised throughout the world. WR: In the East, since ancient times, there has been an amazng level of tolerance and harmony between people of different faiths. From the Hindu Zamorin of Calicut who had a healthy international outlook to the Arabs and Jews to latter day Moghul Emperors who respected Hinduism. Unlike the West..... where there has always been a clear divide of the Us vs Them. IS religon becoming a dangerous topic to address in our troubled times? RZ: Yes, the Eastern tradition was to let a conquered people keep their gods and their temples. In Europe, that was not the case. The Portuguese Christians who conquered Goa believed that they knew all the truth about God and the world – and that Hindu tradition was completely wrong. That was why the Portuguese destroyed more than 300 Hindu temples in Goa in the 16th century. I think the lesson we need to learn is: beware of those people who claim to know the whole truth about the world. And beware of anyone who wants to make religion a part of government. Government and religion must be completely separate. That is the only way to make sure that all of us have the right to believe what we want about God and the world. WR: In the modern world do we need to address past atrocities? Or should we just accept and move on even if the powers in the Vatican refuse to apologise for the Inquisition in Goa ?? RZ: I think that we need to use the past to make us stronger in our fight against injustice everywhere. The Vatican may never apologize for the Inquisition. That doesn't really matter, I believe, as long as we can turn our sense of outrage into good deeds and words. We should use what has happened in the past to give us purpose and meaning in the present. WR: Tell us, when do the Goan public have the opportunity to interact with you? RZ: I would love for people in Goa to write to me at my e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I welcome comments about my books and always try to reply. WR: Though you have never visited Goa what does the word Goa mean to you? RZ: When I think of Goa, I think of a unique mixture of cultures – of languages, cuisines, mythologies… Such mixtures always make people and places more interesting. WR: I hope many Goans read your book since it is the most recent print run on this topic since Priolkar in 1961. RZ: THANK YOU! I hope so, too! ---------- Guardian of the Dawn by Richard Zimler is available at Broadway Book stall, Panjim. The interview above was carried by O Heraldo in two parts in end-June 2008. ======
