Finally a worthy opponent, and logical too. ---------------
Augusto Pinto said... The first sentence of the most influential book of the most influential Indian of the last 139 years is: "The Gandhis belong to the Bania caste and seem to have been originally grocers." Was M. K. Gandhi vomiting in public? Cecil Pinto responds... The second sentence of this most influential book reads... "But for three generations, from my grandfather, they have been Prime Ministers in several Kathiawad States." A very relevant point I think, that Augusto has conveniently ignored. ----------- AP: I don't think so. Gandhi knew very well that caste was the most important aspect of an Indian's life. I am pretty certain that he chose to be very very upfront in this matter by being quite open about his origins. CP: I am also sure when Gandhi wrote of his Experiments with Truth he didn't ever imagine that this would be compared with certain self-purging posts on GoaNet. ----------- AP: However he also chose to upset the caste hierarchy by personally doing the work of a toilet cleaner, the lowest caste in the Indian caste system. And as a leader, he chose to lead by not telling everybody else to follow his example, but by insisting first that his own wife and family should first to follow his example. CP: Again most admirable. I wonder what's the parallel with the lifestyle examples of certain GoaNet posters. Quite contradictory in fact. With or without gates! --------- AP: I bring up this matter because worthies of the order of Jose Colaco and Cecil Pinto appear to be very embarrassed, uncomfortable and uneasy if the question of one's ethnic origins and past happen to be brought up. CP: I cannot speak for Jose Colaco but I can say yes I am uncomfortable when someone vomits (or sneezes loudly!) in public without excusing oneself. More important is the context. Suppose we are all sitting at Pinto Bar and discussing the definition, nature and necessity of 'gated communities' and one person suddenly gets up and claims "I am a low caste, with some high caste blood!" and another claims in support, "And I was conceived illegitimately!" (GoaNet rules do not permit me to use the exact words I want to) that would be out of context - no? And in bad taste? ------------- AP: The issue arose because Elizabeth Carvalho aka Selma has created quite a stir by being explicit, and graphically explicit, about her roots. I think that to understand what she is up to, you have to understand that those who will publicly proclaim to being very 'modern' and who will deny that they are casteist or communal or sectarian in any way; are precisely this, if one merely scratches the surfaces of their skins. CP: Are you suggesting that Selma is modern? Or that she is casteist and communal and sectarian? Or both? --------- AP: And that they will subtly and happily pass snide remarks about the origins of others, to explicitly affirm their superiority in private, but also implicitly in public through their choices of what they find offensive and what they are comfortable with. I think that if bringing up one's personal details is helpful in confronting such prejudices is helpful, then one has every right to do so. CP: Indeed yes. I think Teotonio had proposed a similar solution once. Why don't you practice what you preach Augusto? Please why don't you too, totally out of context, give us the low down about your caste and ancestry? Tell us about all the skeletons in your family cupboard. Dig out the dirt from a few generations back. Wash all your dirty linen in public. Get a few others also to join you in this exercise, if you can. Who knows, if it has the desired positive effect, I might join you too! All for the better good of GoaNet. -------- AP: If there is anything we should hold against Selma it is that she is a verbose bore. CP: There I will not agree. Selma might be many things - but boring never. Repetitive occasionally, self-contradictory often, inconsistent, unnecessarily provocative... many things. But not boring. Cheers! Cecil ==========
