------------------------------------------------------------------------ * * * * * * * * * ANNUAL GOANETTERS MEET * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goanetters in Goa and visiting meet Jan 6, 2009 at 3.30 pm at Hotel Mandovi (prior to the Goa Sudharop event, which you're also welcome to). Join in for a Dutch dinner -- if we can agree on a venue after the meet. RSVP (confirmations only) 9822122436 or 2409490 or [email protected] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sandeep Heble sandeepheble at gmail.com Sat Dec 27 02:41:10 PST 2008 > If the believers can propagate the virtues of God to convert the > unbelievers into believers and if we deem that as their fundamental > and inalienable right, why cant the unbelievers propagate the reverse > to spread the spirit of scientific reforms? Why do people here want to > clip the wings of the various 'Samir Kelekars" of this world? Mario responds: Sandeep has built a straw man, because the unbelievers in the existence of God can and often have spoken out on this forum. The problem always ends up being the irreconcilable difference between science and faith and the fact that science cannot prove that God does not exist, whereas religion cannot prove scientifically that God exists. Thus, no propagation takes place, only endless circular discussions with no minds being changed. For example, my belief in the existence of God is based not on science but on faith and some circumstantial evidence. However, I have no problem with anything that science has to offer as an explanation of the universe as it exists. The problem with Sandeep's premise, which I totally reject, is that someone was wanting to "clip the wings of the various 'Samir Kelekars' of this world." There is only one Samir Kelekar here and he did not initiate the post titled "God sucks" to propagate the spirit of scientific reforms, as anyone can plainly see from the original post: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-December/085637.html That benign and high-minded notion is something his friends subsequently made up as a cover-up to his initial insulting attack on God and, by extension, those who believe in God. Later Samir and Sandeep insinuated that atheists were tolerant and humane and religion was responsible for much of the world's misery, death and destruction, again without initially recognizing that atheists were responsible for many of the most heinous and deadly pogroms in history that accounted for millions of innocent lives. It was only after some others pushed back at the initial codswallop and pointed out the mindless intolerance inherent in these snide comments that we saw unleashed a torrent of explanations, excuses, references to Samir's past, etc., which Sandeep has now parlayed into yet another contrived insinuation that someone was trying to clip Samir's wings and of others like him. Nothing can be further from the truth where I am concerned. Just earlier this month we saw a few Goanetters demand an end to "religious" posts. Perhaps Sandeep missed my response defending the right of every Goanetter to have their say on any topic they desired, including religion, and opining that what someone was interested in was no one else's business, and they should simply move on to other topics without trying to impede or control the topics that others choose to write about. Obviously, my defense of free speech would extend to unbelievers. In fact, it never even crossed my mind to object to Samir's initial topic even though I found it arrogant and offensive. I only tried to challenge and ridicule the nonsense that somehow atheism, or the euphemism, "secular pluralism", automatically made one tolerant and humane, when there is so much evidence to the contrary, and that religious people were automatically intolerant and inhumane.
