Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:17:39 +0530 From: Frederick Noronha <[email protected]>
I think those who disagree with you have managed to derail your arguments by converting this into a debate over "political rights". Mario observes: The only "arguments" by Samir that need to be derailed are those directed at fellow-Goans and not at the corruption in Goa. Fred wrote: It is very, very easy to split from, or divorce the woman/man you once loved, and to curse her/him for all perceived faults, real or imaginary. It's more difficult to live with a person's failings, well past the honeymoon period, and appreciate them for what they are, shortcomings and all. This, to me, is the relationship between expats (and RGs, and Tony called them in his very interesting post) and Goa! Mario observes: This comment ignores the mess that has been allowed to develop in Goa as well as the well-intentioned actions by Goan expats in trying to help Goa by waking up the locals, who went to sleep AGAIN after the successful uprising against the CRZs a few years ago. Fred wrote: The other point is that it is easy to grab a safety-boat to an island of prosperity and the 'better life', and then point to the vessel we have deserted as being a sinking ship. Mario responds: The last time I checked Goa is a "sinking ship" without a single NRG having a hand in sinking it. It doesn't seem to occur to Fred that the "island of prosperity and the better life" didn't get that way by random chance and may have some lessons that Goa can benefit from. Fred wrote: They got a highly subsidised education (in the 1970s, we believed it costed Rs 100,000 to build a single doctor) and then took their education and then sold it cheap to an affluent part of the world, which probably needs it the least. Mario responds: To begin with, we did not become affluent in the new world by selling ourselves cheap. Secondly, most of us emigrated because of the mindless socialism that seemed to have no end in dragging India down, until Manmohan came along, not because our new countries needed us. As it turns out the most welcoming and competitive of the immigrant countries, the USA, cannot function without us now. This is a resource that India could have had for nothing but decided to drive us away through stupid political policies. Regarding the subsidized education, most of us have repaid our debt and then some. Fred wrote: For me, someone deploying skills where it is most needed is more important than ethnic ties, accidents of birth, religion, or other such connects. Mario responds: Who gets to decide where someone's skills are the "most needed"? Fred wrote: Some of our expats believe they are doing a big favour to Goa and India by sending back money to their family and relatives. This is almost made to seem as if they are offering alms to Goa. Mineowners and hoteliers in tourism similarly point to the foreign exchange they earn "for Goa"; I think they are doing nobody a favour but just earning money for themselves and using it to meet their own, their extended family, or business needs... in either case. Mario responds: Karl Marx must be smiling in his mausoleum. Private businesses help the economy by helping themselves. No one starts a business with all the investment and risk this entails "for Goa". These businesses are, in fact, doing a huge favor to those who are employed in their businesses. BTW, even Manmohan Singh acknowledges that the expats are doing Goa and India a huge favor because they could have found other uses for their money somewhere else in the world. NRGs send money to India when it suits them. Other than you, I haven't heard anyone else construe these cash flows as "alms". Fred wrote: it would be even nicer if the expats could (i) work to improve their attitude to their original home, an unappreciated and kicked-in-the-you-know-where land which often gave them much in a way that made a crucial difference to their lives and (ii) try to share skills and be positive instead of making a self-fulfilling prophecy about how terrible the Third World situation really is. Mario responds: The ones who initially "kicked" India in the "you-know-where" were the colonists who exploited India. Thereafter, India was further "kicked-in-the-you-know-where" by the Fabian socialism of the Nehru family that wasted untold resources during India's first 50 years or so, until Manmohan imposed some common sense and reality on India. What Rajan and Anil have done is precisely to share their skills and be positive. What exactly is "negative" about the personal time and money they have spent fighting the system in Goa? The archives will show that the negativism in this debate was introduced by a couple of RGs, for no reason that I have been able to ascertain. The Third World situation is mostly the fault of the Third World's leaders who led their countries astray after gaining Independence from the colonists. India is a great example, where fifty years were wasted on mindless socialism, then, after extreme socialism was abandoned, India immediately began to make steady economic progress in the direction that had been available to them in 1947. India would have been an economic superpower years ago if its current policies had started in 1947, because even the residual socialism and bureaucracy which is still slowing full progress in India would not have been able to establish itself. Fred wrote: With all the problem around, is it possible to "be positive", someone might ask. Firstly, the problems are often a question of perception. This is assuming Goa is suffering from the societal equivalent of terminal cancer, a thesis I strongly doubt, despite all attempts made to project it as such ... for political and other reasons. Mario responds: WHAT?! So the corruption and mess in Goa is a question of perception? So all our activists, RG and NRG alike, are tilting at windmills? You doubt Goa has terminal cancer? WOW! No wonder Goa is in such a mess. Fred wrote: Not to forget also that their multinationals had exported the talent of killing the fertility of local soil with "pesticides" and what not to places like Santa Monica (incidentally, a property sold by the Church, as its name indicates)! Mario asks: Fred, have you ever stopped to ask why "pesticides" are used by farmers? Do you think the farmers spend their hard earned money to buy pesticides just to kill the fertility of their soil? Does the word "pest" provide you with a clue? Fred wrote: That's no reason for a section of the expat Goan to act condescending, nasty, patronising and you-guys-don't-know-what-you're-doingish to us lesser mortals back at home. Mario asks: Fred, are you reading the same posts that I am? I thought it was a couple of RGs who were attacking the NRGs and questioning their legitimacy to do anything in Goa. At the risk of repeating the obvious, if you guys knew what you were doing would we be even having this discussion? Fred wrote: I have never claimed to be deeply in love with Goa, or proud of my Goan identity. Mario observes: Are the chest-thumpers, domestic or foren, getting this? Fred is neither in love with Goa or proud of his Goan identity. Even I, a shameless American capitalist consumerist warmonger and die-hard supporter of the liberation of innocent Muslims, is in love with Goa and proud of my very unique American-Indian-Goan-Bhayya identity. Fred wrote: Many of us don't have the oodles of money that expats have access to. But I don't think that makes us inferior or the efforts less worthy. In this context, asking anyone what-have-you-don-for-Goa questions doesn't make sense to me. Mario asks: I didn't know it took oodles of money to vote for honest politicians. What "efforts less worthy" are you referring to. Once again, it is you and other RGs who are asking the NRGs "what-have-you-done-for-Goa", not the other way around. Fred wrote: May each of us find some way to do something of meaning to some cause we find worthy in life. And may we continue our debates in a way that brings out more light than heat. Mario observes: I think the "cause" under discussion is the current mess in Goa, not some other cause we may find worthy in life. I think you would encourage more light than heat if you were to use more facts as the basis for such a lengthy "sermao" as this one where I have been forced to add some context and perspective as the lone voice on Goanet of reason, truth and peace. "Lead, follow, or get out of the way." - Thomas Paine.
