It appears that JC has confused the meaning of my statement "Ladainha which is familiar to Goan Catholics" with that of the Portuguese word "ladainha" per se. Therefore, in order to avoid further confusion, let me define some terms, FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS DISCUSSION. This stipulation, I feel, is necessary to obviate these definitions being generalized, as is sought to be done by vested interests wrt the definition of the word 'Konkani' in the Official Language Act. 1. littany = the Litany of Our Lady which in Latin begins with "Kyrie eleison" and ends with "Agnus Dei...... miserere nobis" 2. rosary = five decades of the Rosary interspersed with the five mysteries relevant for the day. 3. 'ters' = the whole prayer consisting of the Sotmanitam (Credo), the rosary, Xoronn-yetam and the litany (in Latin or Konkani) in that order and ending with "rozar". 4. 'ladainha' = the entire rite IN SONG beginning with the litany (in Latin), Salve Rainha (in Portuguese), Virgem Mae de Deus (in Portuguese), Hymns to Saints etc. (in Konkani / Portuguese / Latin) and ending with "rozar". This is also the meaning, I believe, in which the word has been used thus far in this thread.
Some prayers are common to both ters and ladainha. But there are important differences: (a) The 'ters' is largely RECITED whereas the 'ladainha', except for the final "rozar", is SUNG. (b) Credo or Sotmanitam, with which 'ters' begins, is not found anywhere in 'ladainha'. (c) 'Virgem Mae de Deus' and the Hymns are found in the 'ladainha' but not in 'ters'. (d) Xoronn-yetam is the Konkani translation of the Portuguese 'Salve Rainha'. But its position wrt the litany differs: in 'ters' it precedes litany whereas in 'ladainha', 'Salve Rainha' follows the litany. All the prayers constituting the 'ladainha' were certainly available as separate entities, but my contention is that their arrangement in a unique FORMAT called 'ladainha' was done in Goa. Just because all the constituent parts were available in - and brought from - Portugal, we cannot claim that the final product was also imported from there. When all the ingredients of a dish are purchased from the market, do we do say that the dish itself was brought from the market? JC has sent some links. I could open the first one which only gives the history of the litany and the explanation of some selected terms. This in no way contradicts my statement. Being in a cybercafe, I could not open the youtube links. But do they contain the entire 'ladainha' format as sung in Goa? To simplify the matter, I would request JC to inform us whether the entire 'ladainha' format, as SUNG in Goa existed in Portugal or elsewhere at least a couple of centuries ago. If yes, then we can be certain that it was brought to Goa by the Portuguese. Else, I shall have to stick to my original statement, "it would be a fallacy to say that Ladainha which is familiar to Goan Catholics was brought by the Portuguese. They could not have brought it because it was not available anywhere; it is entirely home-cooked using ingredients that were at hand!" Sincerely, Sebastian Borges On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 "J. Colaco < jc>" <cola...@gmail.com> wrote: That brings me to this point which I read a couple of minutes ago: Sebastian Borges <s_m_bor...@yahoo.com> wrote: "it would be a fallacy to say that Ladainha which is familiar to Goan Catholics was brought by the Portuguese. They could not have brought it because it was not available anywhere; it is entirely home-cooked using ingredients that were at hand!" Trust the following might be useful. It is posted without comment or verification. Sincerely jc Amanha = Time to refocus on other matters. Enough of zuzz on GN for March . The Origin of the Ladainha (Origem das ladainhas) http://www.npdbrasil.com.br/religiao/rel_meditar_012.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtp7oldyDpU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM4VwjTOp5E&feature=related Sebastian Borges Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
