Dear Mr Borges 1. As I understand it ( I am willing to be corrected if I am wrong), the Bible contains the tenets of Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ. These teachings were not region, colour, race or gender specific but is applicable to all across the board. Those who call themselves followers of Christ are expected to observe his teachings.
Hence your statement " Please note that (1) the last word in the Bible was written not later than the first century AD and, although the Caste system has been prevalent in India for a few millennia, the word "caste" itself was not used in his sense earlier than in the sixteenth century, (2) everything mentioned in the Bible relates to the region of West Asia, Egypt and Rome; there is no connection with India where the system was prevalent,(3) going by your logic, one could claim that Mass, Eucharist, confession etc. are not recognised by Christianity, since these words too do not find mention in the Bible. " makes no sense to me. I will, however, let it pass as I do not want to digress from the present discussion. 2. regarding your point as to how people will be able to trace their original castes, please rest assured that there are methods and ways and means of doing so. Just like one can trace one's property details. If a dalit christian were to reconvert to hinduism, he would be restored all the benefits.There are mechanisms in place to trace the original castes. For example, the East Indian christians were recently included in the OBC list and those who were interested in availing of the benefits have been able to secure their caste certificate. There is a help-desk in Bombay which assists them in tracing their original caste for obtaining the certificate. In case you are interested, I could try and obtain their contact details and put you in touch with them. 3. Regarding hindutva influence in the Constituent Assembly, please read what wikipedia has to state about Dr K M Munshi and Mr Purushottam Das Tandon and Dr S P Mukherjee,. Re: Dr K M Munshi: " He and Purushottam Das Tandon<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purushottam_Das_Tandon> were among those who strongly opposed propagation and conversion in the constituent assembly <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituent_Assembly_of_India>. He was also the main driving force behind the renovation of the historically important Somnath <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somnath> Temple by the Government of India just after independence." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanaiyalal_Maneklal_Munshi Re: Purushottam Das Tandon: "Several controversies and contradictions abound in the life of Purushottam Das Tandon. While he emphasized the similarities between Hindu<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu> and Muslim <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim> cultures, he is regarded to have carried the image of a *soft* Hindu nationalist<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_nationalist> leader. He and KM Munshi <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KM_Munshi> were among those who strongly opposed religious propagation and conversion of a people of one religion to another; they strongly argued in the constituent assembly<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituent_Assembly_of_India> for a condemnation in the constitution<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_India> of religious conversion." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purushottam_Das_Tandon Re: Dr S P Mukherjee: "*Dr. Shyama Prasad Mukherjee* was an Indian politician, who served as Minister for Industry and Supply in Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawaharlal_Nehru>'s cabinet. After falling out with Nehru, Mookerjee quit the Indian National Congress <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_National_Congress> party and founded Nationalist Bharatiya Jana Sangh<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharatiya_Jana_Sangh> party in 1951.' " He emerged as a spokesman for Hindus and shortly joined Hindu Mahasabha and in 1944, he became the President." "After consultation with Shri Golwalkar Guruji of RSS Shri Mookerjee founded Bharatiya Jana Sangh on 21st Oct. 1951 at Delhi and he became the first President of it. In 1952 elections, The BJS was ideologically close to the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Swayamsevak_Sangh> (RSS) and widely considered the political arm of Hindu Nationalism<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Nationalism>. It was opposed to appeasement of India's Muslims. The BJS also favored a uniform civil code governing personal law matters for both Hindus and Muslims, wanted to ban cow slaughter and end the special status given to the Muslim-majority state of Jammu and Kashmir<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammu_and_Kashmir>. The BJS founded the Hindutva <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva> agenda which became the wider political expression of India's Hindu majority. His legacy still remains influential among the conservative members within the Congress." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syama_Prasad_Mookerjee 4. I have pointed out to you that the very fact a Presidential Order was issued on 10th August 1950 barely seven months after the Constitution came into force, negating benefits to dalits of all other religions other than hindus, itself is proof that the Constitution as adopted by the Constituent Assembly did indeed provide for social and economic benefits to dalits of all religions. If you will kindly go through the Constitution and the Directive Principles, you may kindly observe that they are religion neutral http://www.constitution.org/cons/india/p04.html 5.You state "You are asking a rhetoric question: “If dalit christians were excluded by the Constitution what was the need for this Order?” I think you will have to first prove that they were in fact not excluded by the Constitution. Please do so. Here is my response: a) kindly refer to Article 15 which prohibits discrimination on the grounds of religion: Article 15 in The Constitution Of India 1949 15. Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth (1) <http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/1942013/> The State shall not discriminate against any citizen on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them (2) <http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/1952106/> No citizen shall, on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them, be subject to any disability, liability, restriction or condition with regard to (a) <http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/1732536/> access to shops, public restaurants, hotels and palaces of public entertainment; or (b) <http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/820476/> the use of wells, tanks, bathing ghats, roads and places of public resort maintained wholly or partly out of State funds or dedicated to the use of the general public (3) <http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/1603957/> Nothing in this article shall prevent the State from making any special provision for women and children (4) <http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/251667/> Nothing in this article or in clause ( 2 ) of Article 29 shall prevent the State from making any special provision for the advancement of any socially and educationally backward classes of citizens or for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes b). Pl also refer to Article 341 which states: “SCHEDULED CASTES 341(1) The President may with respect to any state or union territory and where it is a state after consultation with the Governor thereof, by public notification, specify the castes races or tribes or parts of or groups within castes areas or tribes which shall for the purpose of this Constitution be deemed to be Scheduled Castes in relation to that state or Union territory as the case may be. (2) Parliament may by law include in or exclude from the list of Scheduled Castes specified in a notification issued under clause (1) any caste, race or tribe or part of or group within any caste race or tribe but save as aforesaid, a notification issued under the said clause shall not be varied by any subsequent notification.” Pl note that this Article speaks about Scheduled Caste only and makes no reference to religion. To cut a long story short, I would request you once again to kindly provide me documentary evidence from official archives which prove that the Christian representatives in the Constituent Assembly sought denial of social and economic benefits for dalit christians since you made the statement in the first place. In case you are unable to do so, there is no problem, we can let the matter rest here until such time new light is thrown on the matter. Regards, Marshall
