+1
On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:48:52 AM UTC+8, emurmur wrote: > > I'm one of the fence sitters. > > I have been using Flex/Flash, which has been fantastic, but has no > future on the mobile web. I think there are only two mature tools > that would allow me to create similarly rich applications; GWT and > Closure Tools. Google has decided that Javascript won't cut it for > their own future products, even though they are heavily invested in > Closure Tools. I agree completely. It is important to understand > that they have also decided NOT to move everything to GWT. This makes > some sense, given that the owner of Java is suing them. I think this > is in no way a reflection on GWT as a tool and technology. So Google > has decided to move forward with a third initiative designed, in part, > to replace GWT and Closure Tools at Google. So, I look at that and I > am worried about long-term support for GWT. I think that is a > reasonable concern. This concern is mitigated by the fact that GWT is > a fully open-source project. Flex/Flash on mobile browsers _was_ > fully supported and look how that turned out. So, corporate support > is no guarantee; open source is actually a safer bet. However, I > would feel a lot better if I had an official roadmap for GWT. > > That being said, Ray's comments on what is coming are heartening. The > biggest worry I have for GWT, if Google stops directly supporting it, > is the debug environment. The plugin seems to need a lot of > maintenance because the browsers are moving so fast. The upcoming > support for source-maps mitigates this; I would feel better if I did > not have to rely on a plugin. > > I've been working with Dart quite a bit and it is really promising. > However, integration with other Javascript environments is > problematic. For instance, Dart integration with PhoneGap does not > exist and appears to be very challenging (some have tried and decided > to pass on it). This is a non-starter for me. I want to use the > mobile web, but I also want the flexibility of providing an app if my > customers want one. For now, Dart can't do that. This may also be a > problem when trying to integrate a Dart app into Windows 8 Metro. GWT > is far superior in this regard; it has a nice architecture for > integrating with Javascript and many useful implementations, including > a couple for PhoneGap. I'm hoping Javascript integration will be > addressed in the future, but Dart is still in alpha and the team is > working on core features at least until the language gets to 1.0. > Also, because Dart is so young, the tooling cannot compare to Java > tooling. This will improve, but Java has many years head start. The > Dart team is amazing and I am sure they are creating something very > important; I just wish they were 2 more years along. > > My window for fence sitting is closing fast. I will have to make a > decision. GWT and Dart are the only real contenders. As of now, I > think GWT is the best choice, but I would sleep better at night if I > had a roadmap under my pillow. > > > On Apr 13, 7:34 am, Blake McBride <[email protected]> wrote: > > I strongly disagree with this. First of all browser technology and HTML > > are in constant flux. If GWT is not updated, it will very soon become > > out-of-date (bugs in new browsers) and unusable (reliably usable over a > > broad base of browsers and platforms). Secondly, building apps with GWT > is > > a full time job. Having to understand and maintain GWT makes two full > time > > jobs. Building GWT apps could easily be a multi-million dollar effort - > > and so could maintaining GWT. This is a huge, huge risk! > > > > Another issue I've seen this many times before. When Windows became > > popular, many developer tools appeared. Many were quite good. IMO, the > > worst development environment by far was Microsoft's MFC. Virtually all > of > > the other tools either sold out or got dropped. Management often chose > MFC > > over other tool because they were non-technical and the old IBM adage > > applied to Microsoft "no one ever lost their job by selecting Microsoft" > > ruled. In the end, the industry largely settled on the absolute lowest > > common denominator. Innovation in that area, for all practical > purposes, > > is dead. > > > > Now we have ASP, JSP, and other popular mashups out there. I am utterly > > shocked how poor they are (although to their credit, they are trying to > > solve practical problems given an environment that was clearly not meant > to > > support what they are attempting!). These environments are among the > worst > > I've ever seen. It's one kludgy work around after another with three > > totally different environments attempting to interact. GWT goes a very > > long way to solve this very significant problem. However, GWT is a > total > > waste of time if you risk your entire company on it and it gets dropped. > > In terms of financial risk, very unfortunately, tool popularity and > > support beats functionality, elegance, and productivity every time. > > > > A statement of commitment from Google would make a huge difference to > me. > > > > Blake McBride > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Frank <[email protected]> wrote: > > > GWT will also not go away... > > > If you have downloaded GWT on your computer you just can keep using it > > > even years after Google has dropped GWT... > > > Just like you still can program in QuickBasic or something. > > > > > GWT doesn't need anything from Google on the web to operate. > > > > > I will just keep using GWT if Google drops it, and see keep an eye on > Dart. > > > > > Op donderdag 12 april 2012 10:00:15 UTC+2 schreef dominikz het > volgende: > > > > >> I've been for years with technologies like SAP or AS/400. Those are > > >> really annoying when you try to do something modern. But the thing > that is > > >> good about them is that they never go away. I understand that Google > needs > > >> to try new things (dart). But turning away from such a big project > like GWT > > >> is stabbing yourself in the back. > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "Google Web Toolkit" group. > > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/TSws9XOf334J. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/2hh07FVI2kcJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
