But if you have to have individual signings on fixed computers does this not
negate the entire concept of web services where the emphasis is not on
having to do all your business in one location.??

Below find some information on Spies from The Art of War
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/132/132.txt .
I think it is compulsory reading for the Dept of Health and indeed any
Public Servant. Of course if there was proper representation of the medical
side they would have read the same text and represented properly. All this
bullshit would not happen.


Best wishes


David de Bhál
www.v-practice.com 


7.  Hence the use of spies, of whom there are five classes:
(1)  Local spies;  (2) inward spies; (3)  converted spies;  (4)
doomed spies; (5) surviving spies.
     8.  When these five kinds of spy are all at work, none can
discover the secret system.  This is called "divine manipulation
of the threads."  It is the sovereign's most precious faculty.

     [Cromwell,  one of the greatest and most practical of all
cavalry leaders,  had officers styled  'scout masters,'  whose
business it was to collect all possible information regarding the
enemy, through scouts and spies, etc., and much of his success in
war was traceable to the previous knowledge of the enemy's moves
thus gained." [1] ]

     9.  Having LOCAL SPIES means employing the services of the
inhabitants of a district.

     [Tu Mu says:  "In the enemy's country, win people over by
kind treatment, and use them as spies."]

     10.  Having INWARD SPIES, making use of officials of the
enemy.

     [Tu Mu enumerates the following classes as likely to do good
service in this respect:  "Worthy men who have been degraded from
office,  criminals who have undergone punishment; also,  favorite
concubines who are greedy for gold, men who are aggrieved at
being in subordinate positions, or who have been passed over in
the distribution of posts, others who are anxious that their side
should be defeated in order that they may have a chance of
displaying their ability and talents, fickle turncoats who always
want to have a foot in each boat.  Officials of these several
kinds," he continues, "should be secretly approached and bound to
one's interests by means of rich presents.  In this way you will
be able to find out the state of affairs in the enemy's country,
ascertain the plans that are being formed against you,  and
moreover disturb the harmony and create a breach between the
sovereign and his ministers."  The necessity for extreme caution,
however,  in dealing with  "inward spies,"  appears from   an
historical incident related by Ho Shih:  "Lo Shang, Governor of
I-Chou, sent his general Wei Po to attack the rebel Li Hsiung of
Shu in his stronghold at P`i.  After each side had experienced a
number of victories and defeats, Li Hsiung had recourse to the
services of a certain P`o-t`ai, a native of Wu-tu.  He began to
have him whipped until the blood came, and then sent him off to
Lo Shang, whom he was to delude by offering to cooperate with him
from inside the city, and to give a fire signal at the right
moment for making a general assault.  Lo Shang,  confiding in
these promises, march out all his best troops, and placed Wei Po
and others at their head with orders to attack at P`o-t`ai's
bidding.  Meanwhile, Li Hsiung's general, Li Hsiang, had prepared
an ambuscade on their line of march; and P`o-t`ai, having reared
long scaling-ladders against the city walls,  now lighted the
beacon-fire.  Wei Po's men raced up on seeing the signal and
began climbing the ladders as fast as they could,  while others
were drawn up by ropes lowered from above.  More than a hundred
of Lo Shang's soldiers entered the city in this way, every one of
whom was forthwith beheaded.  Li Hsiung then charged with all his
forces,  both inside and outside the city, and routed the enemy
completely."  [This happened in 303 A.D.  I do not know where Ho
Shih got the story from.  It is not given in the biography of Li
Hsiung or that of his father Li T`e, CHIN SHU, ch. 120, 121.]

     11.  Having CONVERTED SPIES, getting hold of the enemy's
spies and using them for our own purposes.

     [By means of heavy bribes and liberal promises detaching
them from the enemy's service, and inducing them to carry back
false information as well as to spy in turn on their own
countrymen.  On the other hand, Hsiao Shih-hsien says that we
pretend not to have detected him, but contrive to let him carry
away a false impression of what is going on.  Several of the
commentators accept this as an alternative definition; but that
it is not what Sun Tzu meant is conclusively proved by his
subsequent remarks about treating the converted spy generously
(ss. 21 sqq.).  Ho Shih notes three occasions on which converted
spies were used with conspicuous success:  (1) by T`ien Tan in
his defense of Chi-mo (see supra, p. 90); (2) by Chao She on his
march to O-yu (see p. 57); and by the wily Fan Chu in 260 B.C.,
when Lien P`o was conducting a defensive campaign against Ch`in.
The King of Chao strongly disapproved of Lien P`o's cautious and
dilatory methods,  which had been unable to avert a series of
minor disasters, and therefore lent a ready ear to the reports of
his spies,  who had secretly gone over to the enemy and were
already in Fan Chu's pay.  They said:  "The only thing which
causes Ch`in anxiety is lest Chao Kua should be made general.
Lien P`o they consider an easy opponent, who is sure to be
vanquished in the long run."  Now this Chao Kua was a sun of the
famous Chao She.  From his boyhood, he had been wholly engrossed
in the study of war and military matters, until at last he came
to believe that there was no commander in the whole Empire who
could stand against him.  His father was much disquieted by this
overweening conceit,  and the flippancy with which he spoke of
such a serious thing as war, and solemnly declared that if ever
Kua was appointed general, he would bring ruin on the armies of
Chao.  This was the man who, in spite of earnest protests from
his own mother and the veteran statesman Lin Hsiang-ju, was now
sent to succeed Lien P`o.  Needless to say, he proved no match
for the redoubtable Po Ch`i and the great military power of
Ch`in.  He fell into a trap by which his army was divided into
two and his communications cut; and after a desperate resistance
lasting 46 days, during which the famished soldiers devoured one
another, he was himself killed by an arrow, and his whole force,
amounting,  it is said, to 400,000 men, ruthlessly put to the
sword.]

     12.  Having DOOMED SPIES, doing certain things openly for
purposes of deception, and allowing our spies to know of them and
report them to the enemy.

     [Tu Yu gives the best exposition of the meaning:   "We
ostentatiously do thing calculated to deceive our own spies,  who
must be led to believe that they have been unwittingly disclosed.
Then,  when these spies are captured in the enemy's lines,  they
will make an entirely false report, and the enemy will take
measures accordingly,  only to find that we do something quite
different.  The spies will thereupon be put to death."   As an
example of doomed spies, Ho Shih mentions the prisoners released
by Pan Ch`ao in his campaign against Yarkand.  (See p. 132.)   He
also refers to T`ang Chien, who in 630 A.D. was sent by T`ai
Tsung to lull the Turkish Kahn Chieh-li into fancied security,
until Li Ching was able to deliver a crushing blow against him.
Chang Yu says that the Turks revenged themselves by killing T`ang
Chien, but this is a mistake, for we read in both the old and the
New   T`ang History  (ch.  58,  fol.  2 and ch.  89,  fol.  8
respectively)  that he escaped and lived on until 656.  Li I-chi
played a somewhat similar part in 203 B.C., when sent by the King
of Han to open peaceful negotiations with Ch`i.  He has certainly
more claim to be described a "doomed spy", for the king of Ch`i,
being subsequently attacked without warning by Han Hsin,  and
infuriated by what he considered the treachery of Li I-chi,
ordered the unfortunate envoy to be boiled alive.]

     13.  SURVIVING SPIES, finally, are those who bring back news
from the enemy's camp.

     [This is the ordinary class of spies, properly so called,
forming a regular part of the army.  Tu Mu says:  "Your surviving
spy must be a man of keen intellect, though in outward appearance
a fool; of shabby exterior, but with a will of iron.  He must be
active,  robust,  endowed with physical strength and courage;
thoroughly accustomed to all sorts of dirty work, able to endure
hunger and cold, and to put up with shame and ignominy."  Ho Shih
tells the following story of Ta`hsi Wu of the Sui dynasty:  "When
he was governor of Eastern Ch`in, Shen-wu of Ch`i made a hostile
movement upon Sha-yuan.  The Emperor T`ai Tsu [? Kao Tsu]  sent
Ta-hsi Wu to spy upon the enemy.  He was accompanied by two other
men.  All three were on horseback and wore the enemy's uniform.
When it was dark, they dismounted a few hundred feet away from
the enemy's camp and stealthily crept up to listen,  until they
succeeded in catching the passwords used in the army.  Then they
got on their horses again and boldly passed through the camp
under the guise of night-watchmen; and more than once,  happening
to come across a soldier who was committing some breach of
discipline,  they actually stopped to give the culprit a sound
cudgeling!  Thus they managed to return with the fullest possible
information about the enemy's dispositions, and received warm
commendation from the Emperor, who in consequence of their report
was able to inflict a severe defeat on his adversary."]

     14.  Hence it is that which none in the whole army are more
intimate relations to be maintained than with spies.

     [Tu Mu and Mei Yao-ch`en point out that the spy is
privileged to enter even the general's private sleeping-tent.]

None should be more liberally rewarded.  In no other business
should greater secrecy be preserved.

     [Tu Mu gives a graphic touch:  all communication with spies
should be carried "mouth-to-ear."  The following remarks on spies
may be quoted from Turenne, who made perhaps larger use of them
than any previous commander:  "Spies are attached to those who
give them most,  he who pays them ill is never served.  They
should never be known to anybody; nor should they know one
another.  When they propose anything very material, secure their
persons,  or have in your possession their wives and children as
hostages for their fidelity.  Never communicate anything to them
but what is absolutely necessary that they should know. [2] ]

     15.  Spies cannot be usefully employed without a certain
intuitive sagacity.

     [Mei Yao-ch`en says:  "In order to use them, one must know
fact from falsehood, and be able to discriminate between honesty
and double-dealing."   Wang Hsi in a different interpretation
thinks more along the lines of  "intuitive perception"  and
"practical   intelligence."    Tu Mu strangely   refers   these
attributes to the spies themselves:  "Before using spies we must
assure ourselves as to their integrity of character and the
extent of their experience and skill."  But he continues:   "A
brazen face and a crafty disposition are more dangerous than
mountains or rivers; it takes a man of genius to penetrate such."
So that we are left in some doubt as to his real opinion on the
passage."]

     16.  They cannot be properly managed without benevolence and
straightforwardness.

     [Chang   Yu says:   "When you have attracted   them   by
substantial offers, you must treat them with absolute sincerity;
then they will work for you with all their might."]

     17.  Without subtle ingenuity of mind,  one cannot make
certain of the truth of their reports.

     [Mei Yao-ch`en says:   "Be on your guard against   the
possibility of spies going over to the service of the enemy."]

     18.  Be subtle! be subtle! and use your spies for every kind
of business.

     [Cf. VI. ss. 9.]

     19.  If a secret piece of news is divulged by a spy before
the time is ripe, he must be put to death together with the man
to whom the secret was told.

     [Word for word, the translation here is:  "If spy matters
are heard before [our plans] are carried out," etc.  Sun Tzu's
main point in this passage is:  Whereas you kill the spy himself
"as a punishment for letting out the secret,"  the object of
killing the other man is only, as Ch`en Hao puts it, "to stop his
mouth"  and prevent news leaking any further.  If it had already
been repeated to others, this object would not be gained.  Either
way,  Sun Tzu lays himself open to the charge of inhumanity,
though Tu Mu tries to defend him by saying that the man deserves
to be put to death, for the spy would certainly not have told the
secret unless the other had been at pains to worm it out of
him."]

     20.  Whether the object be to crush an army,  to storm a
city, or to assassinate an individual, it is always necessary to
begin by finding out the names of the attendants, the aides-de-
camp,

     [Literally  "visitors",  is equivalent, as Tu Yu says,  to
"those whose duty it is to keep the general supplied with
information,"  which naturally necessitates frequent interviews
with him.]

and door-keepers and sentries of the general in command.  Our
spies must be commissioned to ascertain these.

     [As the first step, no doubt towards finding out if any of
these important functionaries can be won over by bribery.]

     21.  The enemy's spies who have come to spy on us must be
sought out, tempted with bribes, led away and comfortably housed.
Thus they will become converted spies and available for our
service.
     22.  It is through the information brought by the converted
spy that we are able to acquire and employ local and inward
spies.

     [Tu Yu says:  "through conversion of the enemy's spies we
learn the enemy's condition."  And Chang Yu says:  "We must tempt
the converted spy into our service, because it is he that knows
which of the local inhabitants are greedy of gain, and which of
the officials are open to corruption."]

     23.  It is owing to his information, again,  that we can
cause the doomed spy to carry false tidings to the enemy.

     [Chang Yu says, "because the converted spy knows how the
enemy can best be deceived."]

     24. Lastly, it is by his information that the surviving spy
can be used on appointed occasions.
     25.  The end and aim of spying in all its five varieties is
knowledge of the enemy; and this knowledge can only be derived,
in the first instance, from the converted spy.

     [As explained in ss. 22-24.  He not only brings information
himself,  but makes it possible to use the other kinds of spy to
advantage.]

Hence it is essential that the converted spy be treated with the
utmost liberality.
     26. Of old, the rise of the Yin dynasty

     [Sun Tzu means the Shang dynasty, founded in 1766 B.C.  Its
name was changed to Yin by P`an Keng in 1401.

was due to I Chih

     [Better known as I Yin, the famous general and statesman
who took part in Ch`eng T`ang's campaign against Chieh Kuei.]

who had served under the Hsia.  Likewise, the rise of the Chou
dynasty was due to Lu Ya

     [Lu Shang rose to high office under the tyrant Chou Hsin,
whom he afterwards helped to overthrow.  Popularly known as T`ai
Kung,  a title bestowed on him by Wen Wang, he is said to have
composed a treatise on war, erroneously identified with the
LIU T`AO.]

who had served under the Yin.

     [There is less precision in the Chinese than I have thought
it well to introduce into my translation, and the commentaries on
the passage are by no means explicit.  But, having regard to the
context,  we can hardly doubt that Sun Tzu is holding up I Chih
and Lu Ya as illustrious examples of the converted spy,  or
something closely analogous.  His suggestion is, that the Hsia
and Yin dynasties were upset owing to the intimate knowledge of
their weaknesses and shortcoming which these former ministers
were able to impart to the other side.  Mei Yao-ch`en appears to
resent any such aspersion on these historic names:  "I Yin and Lu
Ya,"  he says, "were not rebels against the Government.  Hsia
could not employ the former, hence Yin employed him.  Yin could
not employ the latter, hence Hou employed him.  Their great
achievements were all for the good of the people."  Ho Shih is
also indignant:  "How should two divinely inspired men such as I
and Lu have acted as common spies?  Sun Tzu's mention of them
simply means that the proper use of the five classes of spies is
a matter which requires men of the highest mental caliber like I
and Lu, whose wisdom and capacity qualified them for the task.
The above words only emphasize this point."  Ho Shih believes
then that the two heroes are mentioned on account of their
supposed skill in the use of spies.  But this is very weak.]

     27.  Hence it is only the enlightened ruler and the wise
general who will use the highest intelligence of the army for
purposes of spying and thereby they achieve great results.

     [Tu Mu closes with a note of warning:  "Just as water, which
carries a boat from bank to bank, may also be the means of
sinking it, so reliance on spies, while production of great
results, is oft-times the cause of utter destruction."]

Spies are a most important element in water, because on them
depends an army's ability to move.

     [Chia Lin says that an army without spies is like a man with
ears or eyes.]



________________________________

 

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Andrew N. Shrosbree
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 7:55 AM
To: General Practice Computing Group Talk
Subject: Re: [GPCG_TALK] FW: E-signing catches on

Greg,

ArgusConnect are involved in a major project with the TEDGP to revive 
the whole concept of personal digital signing. We are working closely 
with HeSA and CyberTrust.
Regards

Greg Twyford wrote:

> Oliver and colleagues,
> Until earlier this year I'd formed the opinion that the use of 
> individual HeSa certificates, as opposed to location certificates, was 
> dead. HeSa and MA had made them 'optional' for its online claiming, in 
> their efforts to get GPs using that system, which, of course, 
> marginalised their distribution for other uses.
>
> However, in March Andrew Macintyre convinced me that they do have a 
> role, and his Medical Objects software currently allows their use for 
> both signing and encrypting referrals to specialists, and for 
> specialists to return reports to GPs. I've tested this, it works very 
> easily. ArgusConnect has promised to re-enable its use of individual 
> keys, which they'd taken out of Argus, as they [and I suspect MA] had 
> previously also reached the conclusion they were dead.
>
> Andrew has about 1500 users on the sunshine coast, which demonstrates 
> it can be done. Whether HeSA and MA wills settle on the dongle or 
> smartcard version of the certificates is unclear. Both need software 
> installed on a PC to work, so the card reader issue is not the only one.
>
> The game is still alive, I believe.
> Greg


-- 
Andrew N. Shrosbree B.Sc, B.Ec
Technical Director
ArgusConnect Pty Ltd
http://www.argusconnect.com.au
Suite 4, Greenhill Centre, Mt Helen
Victoria, Australia
Tel: +61 (0)3 5335 2214
Mob: +61 (0)415 645 291
Skype: andrewshroz


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