Hello All, Certainly the discussions here and centered around salvaging either of the two. I guess both of them (Gandhi and Ambedkar) had a very dialectical relationship and both of them profoundly influenced and changed each other. Both the figures are amenable to appropriation by people as much as it was to each other. One of the most interesting piece on this is "Gandhi as Mahatma: Gorakhpur District, Easter UP, 1921-2," by Shahid Amin which talks about the appropriation of Gandhi the figure by the people of Gorakhpur. Gandhi is feted by BJP as much as Ambedkar is; so there is a certain kind of validity in understanding the current political circumstance which requires the appropriation of both. This is not to suggest that the political understanding can reduce both figures to ahistorical figures. This is just a shortcut to bypass their controversial relationship without understanding that the "antagonism" generated between the two is in many ways the essence of democracy. So I guess it is important to understand the failures of Gandhi as well, most controversially during the Poona Pact crisis. Ambedkar certainly is not the blanket figure for democracy as such, especially in the context his almost complete appropriation by Dalit intellectuals. Maybe it is in the political impasses and interstices generated by reading both Gandhi and Ambedkar together that may be these figures are liberated more for appropriation by minorities, OBCs etc. also. James Michael.
2008/10/6 jenny rowena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Ahmed, > . > when Venugopal sent that post titled Satanic Verses, > don';t you think it was related to Gandhi;s thoughts and > philosohpy..?? > If you want to salvage Gandhism against all > Ambedkarite, Dalit and other criticism.. go on do it.. > Gandhism must be that important for some for various reasons... > > The whole exercise here was to show that this might not > be what everybody in this group thinks, feels.. > > Now how you deal with the perspectives of these "others" > is up to you. > > >you can attack the "others" personally (i am not even suggesting that you > are > doing this, but it was done in this forum) > >You can reject it by saying that > it has a problem, it is not fully formulated, it is not that, this etc > etc.. > OR > > you can engage with the critique and try to communicate > your Gandhi (as a man, text, philosophy etc etc ) > not in the same old way as before, but > after taking into considerations this critique.. > > Actually my initial point was also this:. > That given the fact that an Ambedkarite critique of Gandhi > does exist, the seminar should have used/engaged with > that critique in its reading of Gandhi. And the Ambedkarite critique is > not just about Gandhi as the man.. But also his whole philosophy.. > > jenny > > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 4:53 PM, ahmed rafeek j <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> >> >>> Here you have an upper caste Indian man pitted against a Dalit man, >>> and the difference is so huge, its like one is a white man >>> and the other black.... >>> and though both of them lived and worked during a particular historical >>> period, >>> and moved in very similar contexts, there was very little that they >>> otherwise shared. >>> >> >> Isn't it important, for the discussion here to make a distinction between >> Gandhi tha man and reading Gandhi? I think it is important. Because if we >> reduce Gandhi to the man, the scope of criticism would be very limited. >> >> I think both, 'Gandhi the man', and 'Gandhi as a period, a group of >> throughts, a way of life, philosophy etc needs to be discussed separately. >> * * I think that is the reason why Ranjith's criticism, and Jenny's to an >> extend seems very week to respond to Nizar's points on Gandhi. >> >> >> > > > > -- James Michael Research Scholar, The English and Foreign Languages University, Hyderabad-500007. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
