Hello, I didn't say that upper-middle caste/class is a static category. But it does not mean these categories are too inclusive. Not every one is allowed to own that position.
Its very difficult for me to differentiate between upper caste girls protest a gainst Dalit/OBC reservation in higher education and Ramsena's attack on pub going girls. Both the incidents are about preventing certain categories from entering into certain places which they believe are reserved for particular categories Fathima Naeema On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Afthab Ellath <aftha...@gmail.com> wrote: > Fatima, > > I don't subscribe to Srinivas' idea that there is no caste/class/gender in > the Sangh Parivar Terror and I also don't believe that the upper caste hate > and the middle class apathy towards the dalit and minority and their > sufferings has nothing to do with the rise of this fascism in India... My > point was not that... > > But the clean categorizations, generalization and creating abstract notions > of evil is the breeding ground of fascism... Politics of inclusion and > egalitarianism is not black and white, but it works in gray areas... > Perpetrators can becomes victims and vice versa... They need not freeze in > space and time.. The same victimized Muslim men might slap on your face to > control your sexuality... > > The "upper caste" and "middle class" that you mentioned itself cant be > homogeneous... Where will upper caste/middle class women come in these > categories? Muthalik's moral Dharmayudh/crusade/Jihad was another aspect of > the cultural nationalist terror that we have seen in Gujrat and Orissa... It > is the gender aspect of it.. It was about pub-going, drinking upper > caste/middle class men, but about women... In Sangh parivar's Bharath not > only muslims/dalits/christians will be controlled, but pub-going women as > well, especially when there is a possibility of mixing with the aforesaid > impure genes... > > Many people who had not celebrated Valantine's day in the past and will not > in future did celebrate it this time, understanding this danger... While > expressing solidarity many are not identifying themselves with the class and > caste who were celebrating Valantine's day traditionally... It was their own > struggle... At the same time you can have your own politics to stay away > from it... > > Regards > Afthab Ellath > > > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Fathima Naeema <naeem...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> >> >> We need to discuss the Mangalore incident and the subsequent developments >> in a holistic manner. The questions such as 'are the victims of Manglore >> incident the perpetrators of Gujrat and Orissa Carnage and behind the state >> terrorism in Kashmir and North Eastern states?' will only help to reduce the >> scope of understanding the Hindutva violence with its nuances and >> complexities. >> >> >> >> >> >> We have enough evidences to prove that there is a categorisation as upper >> class/ middle class when it comes to Hindu terror. We always tempt to >> understand violence only in terms of physical abuses. Don't you think that >> electing right wing Hindutva over other democratic options itself is a >> kind of terror? And who were the leading forces behind this Hindutva >> 's capturing of our democratic institutions? Studies, very very clearly show >> that it was the same middle class. We have seen it in Gujrat, Orissa and in >> Karnataka. As a Muslim woman, I didn't have to wait till 2009 V day to >> realize this fact. >> >> >> >> And Afthab, perpetrators, criminals and culprits constitute the "THEM" >> and the victims constitute the "WE". >> >> >> >> Fathima Naeema >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 12:13 AM, sreenivas v.p < >> sreenivas_...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: >> >>> >>> Hello Fatima , >>> >>> There is no categorisation as upper class/ middle class when it comes to >>> Hindu terror . it is a sang parivar illusion that all upper caste hindus >>> are their supporters . And this V day has proved it wrong . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On *Sun, 15/2/09, Afthab Ellath <aftha...@gmail.com>* wrote: >>> >>> From: Afthab Ellath <aftha...@gmail.com> >>> Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: Will there be V-day celeberations in Kerala? >>> To: greenyouth@googlegroups.com >>> Date: Sunday, 15 February, 2009, 2:12 AM >>> >>> >>> Dear Fatima, >>> >>> Is Politics such a simple moral of clearly defined perpetrators and >>> victims or is it about vengeance ? Who is this "us" and "them"... And are >>> the victims of Manglore incident the perpetrators of Gujrat and Orissa >>> Carnage and behind the state terrorism in Kashmir and North Eastern states? >>> >>> Regards >>> Afthab Ellath >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Fathima Naeema <naeem...@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>> >>>> Let the middle class/upper caste Indians to realize the aftermaths of >>>> electing Sangh Parivar to power. Why should we take the risk of celebrating >>>> V-Day to protect the upper class/caste metropolitans? We have been taking >>>> the responsibility of protecting them from physical abuses. We should come >>>> out of that. They all were silent when our women were raped in Gujrat, when >>>> our brothers and sisters were molested in Orissa, when Indian military >>>> raped >>>> women in Kashmir and North Eastern areas. This is not to say that we don't >>>> need to counter the Hindu Terror Culture. I just want to point out the fact >>>> that Hindu terror now has a new victim. >>>> >>>> Fathima Naeema >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 7:52 AM, sreenivas v.p < >>>> sreenivas_...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> sexual repression has become an established historical fact >>>>> . Prohibition , censorship and denial of sex are the forms through which >>>>> bourgeoisie and capitalist society excercise their power . As part of this >>>>> hidden agenda , sexuality was moved to the home . On the subject of sex , >>>>> silence became the rule . and there is a political cause associated with >>>>> this repression of demand for sexual freedom , and the right to speak >>>>> about >>>>> it. Pramod muthaliks are part of this hidden agenda . >>>>> >>>>> and the conservative kerala culture has futher deteriorated this >>>>> sexual repression . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On *Fri, 6/2/09, damodar prasad <damodar.pra...@gmail.com>* wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: damodar prasad <damodar.pra...@gmail.com> >>>>> Subject: [GreenYouth] Will there be V-day celeberations in Kerala? >>>>> To: "fourth-estate-criti...@googlegroups.com" < >>>>> fourth-estate-criti...@googlegroups.com>, "Greenyouth" < >>>>> greenyouth@googlegroups.com> >>>>> Date: Friday, 6 February, 2009, 3:08 PM >>>>> >>>>> Will there be an open Valentine's Day celebrations in Kerala? >>>>> >>>>> Will there be pub cultures in kerala? >>>> >>>> There may be some celebrations in the interiors of places like >>>> Technopark, relatively free for young people to converge or in some >>>> confiding places in the campuses. ( since some new engg. college are >>>> realtively free of moal thugs masqueradign as progressive students >>>> movement) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There will never be open celebrations bcoz we are so conservative we >>> never think about undoing the moral codes transferred to us through parental >>> guidance. Our parents are sure that the children will never go untoward >>> ways. Of course, the parents have to keep a watch on their investments!! >>> >>> It is easy to confront Sreeram Sena's Manglore pub attack. It's away >>> from us. The Sena is only a fringe lumpen group. We >>> >>> The Senas find no palce in Kerala bcoz that space is already occupied!! >>> >>> >>> >>> The popular mind of Kerala is akin to Sreeram Sena. Tradition bound & >>> conservative. It is naturally aapthetic to anything alien. The State is only >>> an extended village. Amablapuzha type incidents happen in the claustrophobic >>> conditions of tradition bound life, where we are castigated and socially >>> ostracized by "stigmatization". >>> >>> >>> >>> (Let this not be read as justification of the rapists) >>> >>> >>> >>> We will never have "western" kind of celebrations bcoz the popular mind >>> of Kerala is that of Sreeram Sena. RamRam!! Though we refuse to acknowledge >>> it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Left conservatism explains it in terms of anti-imperialism, capitalism, >>> and some ridiculous notions of nativism as we have seen in the campaign >>> against beauty pageant. >>> >>> >>> >>> The stick and broom is the symbol of this Left Conservatism masquerading >>> as anti-imperialism. It is free of factions. When two young couples kiss in >>> open, the world cangeth and becomes filthy. The idea of cleansing pollution >>> was a natural response of the conservatism so ingrained in the mind of >>> Kerala. But the masintream Left is the flag-bearers of this conservatism. >>> >>> >>> >>> We never welcomed globalization or rather globality. Our enthusiasm is >>> for globalisation is limited to some investments that may generate jobs. >>> >>> That's only a technical interest. The Lumpen mind, the Modi >>> enthusiast, crypto-Sena fan, of Kerala has never accepted globality or never >>> will accept it. >>> >>> Its high time we removed that progressive mask!! >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now >>> >>> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_2/*http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. >>> >>> >>> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/> >> >> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
