Fatima, I didn't say that the upper caste is inclusive.. It will never be...
I don't have any disagreement with the second para of your post... Regards Afthab Ellath On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Fathima Naeema <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello, > > I didn't say that upper-middle caste/class is a static category. > But it does not mean these categories are too inclusive. > Not every one is allowed to own that position. > > > Its very difficult for me to differentiate between upper caste girls > protest a > gainst Dalit/OBC reservation in higher education and Ramsena's attack on > pub going girls. > Both the incidents are about preventing certain categories from entering > into certain places which they believe are reserved for particular > categories > > > > Fathima Naeema > > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Afthab Ellath <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Fatima, >> >> I don't subscribe to Srinivas' idea that there is no caste/class/gender in >> the Sangh Parivar Terror and I also don't believe that the upper caste hate >> and the middle class apathy towards the dalit and minority and their >> sufferings has nothing to do with the rise of this fascism in India... My >> point was not that... >> >> But the clean categorizations, generalization and creating abstract >> notions of evil is the breeding ground of fascism... Politics of inclusion >> and egalitarianism is not black and white, but it works in gray areas... >> Perpetrators can becomes victims and vice versa... They need not freeze in >> space and time.. The same victimized Muslim men might slap on your face to >> control your sexuality... >> >> The "upper caste" and "middle class" that you mentioned itself cant be >> homogeneous... Where will upper caste/middle class women come in these >> categories? Muthalik's moral Dharmayudh/crusade/Jihad was another aspect of >> the cultural nationalist terror that we have seen in Gujrat and Orissa... It >> is the gender aspect of it.. It was about pub-going, drinking upper >> caste/middle class men, but about women... In Sangh parivar's Bharath not >> only muslims/dalits/christians will be controlled, but pub-going women as >> well, especially when there is a possibility of mixing with the aforesaid >> impure genes... >> >> Many people who had not celebrated Valantine's day in the past and will >> not in future did celebrate it this time, understanding this danger... While >> expressing solidarity many are not identifying themselves with the class and >> caste who were celebrating Valantine's day traditionally... It was their own >> struggle... At the same time you can have your own politics to stay away >> from it... >> >> Regards >> Afthab Ellath >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Fathima Naeema <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> >>> >>> We need to discuss the Mangalore incident and the subsequent developments >>> in a holistic manner. The questions such as 'are the victims of Manglore >>> incident the perpetrators of Gujrat and Orissa Carnage and behind the state >>> terrorism in Kashmir and North Eastern states?' will only help to reduce the >>> scope of understanding the Hindutva violence with its nuances and >>> complexities. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> We have enough evidences to prove that there is a categorisation as upper >>> class/ middle class when it comes to Hindu terror. We always tempt to >>> understand violence only in terms of physical abuses. Don't you think that >>> electing right wing Hindutva over other democratic options itself is a >>> kind of terror? And who were the leading forces behind this Hindutva >>> 's capturing of our democratic institutions? Studies, very very clearly show >>> that it was the same middle class. We have seen it in Gujrat, Orissa and in >>> Karnataka. As a Muslim woman, I didn't have to wait till 2009 V day to >>> realize this fact. >>> >>> >>> >>> And Afthab, perpetrators, criminals and culprits constitute the "THEM" >>> and the victims constitute the "WE". >>> >>> >>> >>> Fathima Naeema >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 12:13 AM, sreenivas v.p < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hello Fatima , >>>> >>>> There is no categorisation as upper class/ middle class when it comes to >>>> Hindu terror . it is a sang parivar illusion that all upper caste hindus >>>> are their supporters . And this V day has proved it wrong . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On *Sun, 15/2/09, Afthab Ellath <[email protected]>* wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Afthab Ellath <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: Will there be V-day celeberations in Kerala? >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Date: Sunday, 15 February, 2009, 2:12 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Fatima, >>>> >>>> Is Politics such a simple moral of clearly defined perpetrators and >>>> victims or is it about vengeance ? Who is this "us" and "them"... And are >>>> the victims of Manglore incident the perpetrators of Gujrat and Orissa >>>> Carnage and behind the state terrorism in Kashmir and North Eastern states? >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Afthab Ellath >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Fathima Naeema <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Let the middle class/upper caste Indians to realize the aftermaths of >>>>> electing Sangh Parivar to power. Why should we take the risk of >>>>> celebrating >>>>> V-Day to protect the upper class/caste metropolitans? We have been taking >>>>> the responsibility of protecting them from physical abuses. We should come >>>>> out of that. They all were silent when our women were raped in Gujrat, >>>>> when >>>>> our brothers and sisters were molested in Orissa, when Indian military >>>>> raped >>>>> women in Kashmir and North Eastern areas. This is not to say that we don't >>>>> need to counter the Hindu Terror Culture. I just want to point out the >>>>> fact >>>>> that Hindu terror now has a new victim. >>>>> >>>>> Fathima Naeema >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 7:52 AM, sreenivas v.p < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> sexual repression has become an established historical fact >>>>>> . Prohibition , censorship and denial of sex are the forms through which >>>>>> bourgeoisie and capitalist society excercise their power . As part of >>>>>> this >>>>>> hidden agenda , sexuality was moved to the home . On the subject of sex >>>>>> , >>>>>> silence became the rule . and there is a political cause associated with >>>>>> this repression of demand for sexual freedom , and the right to speak >>>>>> about >>>>>> it. Pramod muthaliks are part of this hidden agenda . >>>>>> >>>>>> and the conservative kerala culture has futher deteriorated this >>>>>> sexual repression . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On *Fri, 6/2/09, damodar prasad <[email protected]>*wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: damodar prasad <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: [GreenYouth] Will there be V-day celeberations in Kerala? >>>>>> To: "[email protected]" < >>>>>> [email protected]>, "Greenyouth" < >>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>> Date: Friday, 6 February, 2009, 3:08 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> Will there be an open Valentine's Day celebrations in Kerala? >>>>>> >>>>>> Will there be pub cultures in kerala? >>>>> >>>>> There may be some celebrations in the interiors of places like >>>>> Technopark, relatively free for young people to converge or in some >>>>> confiding places in the campuses. ( since some new engg. college are >>>>> realtively free of moal thugs masqueradign as progressive students >>>>> movement) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There will never be open celebrations bcoz we are so conservative we >>>> never think about undoing the moral codes transferred to us through >>>> parental >>>> guidance. Our parents are sure that the children will never go untoward >>>> ways. Of course, the parents have to keep a watch on their investments!! >>>> >>>> It is easy to confront Sreeram Sena's Manglore pub attack. It's away >>>> from us. The Sena is only a fringe lumpen group. We >>>> >>>> The Senas find no palce in Kerala bcoz that space is already occupied!! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The popular mind of Kerala is akin to Sreeram Sena. Tradition bound & >>>> conservative. It is naturally aapthetic to anything alien. The State is >>>> only >>>> an extended village. Amablapuzha type incidents happen in the >>>> claustrophobic >>>> conditions of tradition bound life, where we are castigated and socially >>>> ostracized by "stigmatization". >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> (Let this not be read as justification of the rapists) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We will never have "western" kind of celebrations bcoz the popular mind >>>> of Kerala is that of Sreeram Sena. RamRam!! Though we refuse to acknowledge >>>> it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Left conservatism explains it in terms of anti-imperialism, capitalism, >>>> and some ridiculous notions of nativism as we have seen in the campaign >>>> against beauty pageant. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The stick and broom is the symbol of this Left Conservatism masquerading >>>> as anti-imperialism. It is free of factions. When two young couples kiss in >>>> open, the world cangeth and becomes filthy. The idea of cleansing >>>> pollution >>>> was a natural response of the conservatism so ingrained in the mind of >>>> Kerala. But the masintream Left is the flag-bearers of this conservatism. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We never welcomed globalization or rather globality. Our enthusiasm is >>>> for globalisation is limited to some investments that may generate jobs. >>>> >>>> That's only a technical interest. The Lumpen mind, the Modi >>>> enthusiast, crypto-Sena fan, of Kerala has never accepted globality or >>>> never >>>> will accept it. >>>> >>>> Its high time we removed that progressive mask!! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now >>>> >>>> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_2/*http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. >>>> >>>> >>>> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/> >>> >>> >> >> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
