Contemporary dilemma of modernity/westernization/universalization vis a vis third worldly crisis of identity is so beautifully illustrated in Orhan Pamuk's Snow. How the modernist ambitions of the sixties in Turkey under Kemal Pasha ended up in grave political and social crises after two generations of ruthless secularizing project is the theme of the novel. Snow appears as a motif everywhere in this wonderful novel, symbolizing suspicion,terror, insecurity, instability in the minds of people. New generation of Radical Islamists pledge to end old secularists' slavish adherence to western norms on the one side, and contemporary ways of the state machinery in suppressing faith by employing the crudest and treacherous methods of army, intelligence and and police, on the other. Anything associated with the West is asked to be seen as malice and ruthlessly revolted upon. In the novel, Contemporary Turkey is represented not only as the geographical fault line in this Euro- Asian conflict, but also is chronologically mapped as the site of disillusionment of a whole new generation with the pursuit of modernity. Pamuk rather than being able to take sides, speaks out his dilemma through the protagonist Ka, a Western educated young poet and journalist who revisits Istambul in late 90s after years of stay in a European city. My point here in the discussion, is just making a reference to Pamuk's experience of engaging with this dichotomy as a creative writer and particularly point to his implicit suggestion that he is at a time, both an insider and outsider of both these worlds.This is also suggestive of how genuinely creative people like to encounter these dilemmas just as they are existing and without being prejudiced by the ways people perceive the reality of their existence the contemporary world everywhere.
On 9 Mar, 09:35, damodar prasad <damodar.pra...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Sreenivas, > I would be happy to know from you about any instance from history where > Islam as a State religion intervened to stall scientific inquiry and also > persecute scientist. Or can you quote an instance where an equally > alternative contesting ideology like, divine creation or intelligent design, > was imposed, amusingly, as "secular" knowledge in the Islamic world. > > Persecution means burning/killing of scientist to threaten inquirers with > "dire consequence" of ex-communication., social ostracisation. Did Islamic > world persecute its free inquirers in this way? Pls. enlighten. > > The whole monument named as West has a history of violations and tortures > and genocides. its built with blood. > > Am not a western-baiter to aggravate anti-westernism. The sort of idealizing > of any civilizations for that matter is ridiculous by any standards. > > What is idealized as western "liberal" thinking in your monolithic > understanding of west is true to the point that this west has some in-built > capacity to turn lies into truth. > > *If you want to know the meaning of "dire consequence" in our times. Its > like, Thrissur athiroopatha Bishops demanding Congress party to field Tom > Vadakkan or otherwise face the music. PDP's negotiation with LDF to field an > independent candidate is a Big-Secular problem for liberal humanists. > > PS*: there is an interesting work of fiction "Geometry of God" from > Pakisthan by Asma which deals with initiative to "islaimize" knowledge in > Zia's period and how it was resisted as well. The novel portrays in nuanced > way the contest within a religious framework. But in west for some periods > in history, there was not even contest at all!! . * > > *On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:30 AM, sreenivas v.p > <sreenivas_...@yahoo.co.in>wrote: > > > Hi Afthab, > > > My statement has nothing to do with terrorism or any contemporary > > phenomenon . In fact I do > > not think that terrorism has something to do with Islam. And speaking about > > religion , I do not see a religionless future. The quest for meaning is > > fundamental to being human. The question, then, is not whether religion is > > fading, but instead how religion can be more pragmatic and scientific to > > support life in this planet . The future of religion rests in the above > > reason . Looking at this perspective , I see hope in > > only christianity. Other religions including Hinduism and Islam will fade > > away mainly because people have start recognizing its dogmaitc charactor . > > Science developed in western countries mainly because of this fact that > > christianity has become less dogmaitc in charector compared to the times of > > Galilio . I do not think there is any truth > > in Damodar's statement that Islam has been secular to scientifc inquiries > > . > > On the other hand Islam and Hinuism has ignored the developments in > > science by perpetuting false ideologies. Later they realized that the > > existence of their false ideologies require the help of science . This could > > be one reason why they started claiming that religion has already revealed > > what science proved later . > > Let us not look at what the actions of church was . But christianity with > > its less dogmatic charactor and liberal values played a major influence on > > its people. > > > --- On *Sat, 7/3/09, Afthab Ellath <aftha...@gmail.com>* wrote: > > > From: Afthab Ellath <aftha...@gmail.com> > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: March -8 > > To: greenyouth@googlegroups.com > > Date: Saturday, 7 March, 2009, 10:06 AM > > > Sreenivas, > > > Is it the violence that is now associated with Islam and the rise of > > communalism in India that compelled you to make such a naive statement? > > > But a slight historical inquiry will help you to find that there is a close > > relationship between the present day political violence and political > > modernity. The suicide bomber identified as an irrational attempt to > > reverse the free-thought and the liberal values is of course is easy and > > self-serving.. But it has nothing to do with the political reality of the > > contemporary world... The senseless violence of the suicide bombing is > > closely related with the violence of modernity rather than Islam... > > > Regards > > Afthab Ellath > > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:59 AM, damodar prasad > > <damodar.pra...@gmail.com<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=damodar.pra...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > >> Western culture is far superior to that of Asia mainly because of the fact > >> that a liberal form of christianity is far superior to Hinduism and Islam > >> . > >> For defending globalization, sreenivas , do you think we need to go to > >> other extreme. > > >> If you go by historical instances, compared to other religions, it is > >> Xian-Papal authority which has persecuted thinkers, scientists, stalled > >> independent inquiries, endorsed colonial-civilizational expansions. Islam, > >> in this sense, has been secular in its "approach" towards scientific > >> inquiries. Hinduism as Brahmnism limited the with democratization of > >> knowldedge while permitting inquiries within caste order. Thirdly, the > >> inter-civilizational network and exchange of things material and immaterial > >> were in place since time immemorial and the idea of "western" is a recent > >> "western" invention. > >> 8:08 AM, sreenivas v.p > >> <sreenivas_...@yahoo.co.in<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sreenivas_...@yahoo.co.in> > >> > wrote: > > >>> Globalization has many positive effects . One of them is that Indians now > >>> got to know about the western culture and start recognizing their > >>> individuality . As Hindutva elements say , globalization is destroying our > >>> culture . But we should be happy that what is being destroyed is a stupid > >>> culture . Western culture is far superior to that of Asia mainly because > >>> of > >>> the fact that a liberal form of christianity is far superior to Hinduism > >>> and Islam . > >>> Christianity has become less persecuting , manily due to the work of > >>> freethinkers who have made dogmatists rather less dogmatic . In some forms > >>> of liberal christianity , the element of dogma is reduced to a minimum . > >>> And the western culture has become more sophisticated and pragmatic > >>> because > >>> of this influence . > >>> sreenivas > > >>> --- On *Thu, 5/3/09, Venugopalan K M > >>> <kmvenuan...@gmail.com<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kmvenuan...@gmail.com> > >>> >* wrote: > > >>> From: Venugopalan K M > >>> <kmvenuan...@gmail.com<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kmvenuan...@gmail.com> > > >>> Subject: [GreenYouth] March -8 > >>> To: > >>> Date: Thursday, 5 March, 2009, 5:17 PM > > >>> Agolavalkaranam in the context of women's rights, just means onslaught > > >>> on this beloved country's great Culture! > >>> Like women daring to visit pubs, daring to defy the dress codes, > >>> daring to shatter the values of family and bringing shame to the > >>> country and the countryMen, so on and so forth. > >>> While Muthaliks and Modys are there in Karnataka and Gujrat at large > >>> to fight these evils, who will fight here? > >>> Going by the press reports, we find the local police to the leftist- > >>> rightist women/youth/students organizations to the neighborhood > >>> fraternity vigilance volunteers arrayed in the great task of defending > >>> culture. Part of the task of (people) getting opinionated against w > >>> omen's assertions, is of course left to the Fourth Estate together > >>> with the Samskarika Nayakans and Nayikas of Kerala through rhetoric s > >>> and imagery of globalization destroying Culture.... especially by > >>> w omen shedding their sense of guilt and shame, daring to express > >>> their sexuality in first person, unmindful of the Culture and > >>> Tradition! > >>> We find in one report after other ,youths being rounded up by the > >>> police for no cognizable crime. > >>> An item appeared in Malayala Manorama daily on the other day. It was a > >>> report under a sensational caption, about an incident at Kollam > >>> railway station. Lacking in many details,esp of the legality of the > >>> police/railway court's action, the report would mean that two people > >>> of different sex, unconnected either through marriage or through > >>> blood relation, sitting together and talking is an act punishable with > >>> instant arrest and fine! > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter now! > >>> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_cricket_1/*http://beta.cricket.yahoo.com> > > > ------------------------------ > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. > > > <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yahoo.co...> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. 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