Quote Let Pakistan go to war and lose ... Unquote How terribly stupid! War is not a game of ludo or cricket, meant to just win or lose. And, both the countries are nuclear armed. Consequences could be unimaginably horrific.
Quote A "surgical strike" would, in all probability, lead to a war-like situation, with Pakistan always being over-eager to brandish its nuclear weapons. Unquote [From the article below.] Here is a view from Pakistan. Sukla http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=5795&Cat=13&dt=5/6/2011 <http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=5795&Cat=13&dt=5/6/2011> India trying to exploit Osama killing against Pakistan Amir Mir <http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintWriterName.aspx?ID=13&URL=Amir%20Mir>Friday, May 06, 2011 SLAMABAD: India has presented a fresh list of wanted terrorists allegedly living in Pakistan in a bid to exploit Osama bin Laden’s killing on the Pakistani soil by mounting pressure on Islamabad to stop harbouring Dawood Ibrahim and hand them over to her. According to well-informed diplomatic circles in Islamabad, in the aftermath of Osama’s death in a US-led commando raid in Abbottabad, the Indian authorities have presented a new list of the most-wanted fugitives who are being sought by the Indian Central Bureau of Investigation for their involvement in terrorist activities committed on the Indian soil. And the Indian agencies believe that they have taken refuge in neighbouring Pakistan, including the D-Company boss, Dawood Ibrahim, who allegedly masterminded the 1993 serial bombings in Mumbai that killed 257 people. Though Islamabad repeatedly denies that Dawood Ibrahim hides in Pakistan, the Indian authorities continue to allege that he is being provided shelter by the all-powerful intelligence establishment. The list of most wanted people handed over to the Pakistani authorities also carries Interpol Red Corner notices and details of the crimes committed by those allegedly hiding in Pakistan, along with their fake names as well as their Pakistani passports and ID card numbers. Those named in the list include Dawood Ibrahim and his trusted lieutenants [like Tiger Memon, Chhota Shakeel, Ayub Memon and Abdul Razzak] and five hijackers of Indian Airlines’ IC-814 flight [Ibrahim Athar, Zahoor Ibrahim Mistri, Shahid Akhtar Sayed and Azhar Yusuf.] The list also mentions the names of the Jaish-e-Mohammad chief, Maulana Masood Azhar, Jamaatul Daawa Ameer Hafiz Mohammad Saeed and the Hizbul Mujahideen chief Syed Salahuddin, seeking their arrest and extradition. As the news of Osama’s killing in Pakistan was announced by President Obama in his televised address, the Indian government quickly seized the opportunity, saying in a statement on May 2 that it underscored its concern that Pakistan was providing safe havens for the most wanted militants and terrorists. “The fact that Laden was living in a large mansion in Abbottabad has vindicated New Delhi’s stand that terrorism could not be eliminated without the elimination of safe havens in Pakistan,” he added. Indian Home Minister further said that perpetrators of the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks, including the controllers and handlers of the terrorists, continue to be sheltered in Pakistan. He then took the opportunity to renew his call for Pakistan to arrest all those responsible for the 2008 Mumbai attacks and those who had carried out similar activities on the Indian soil before that. Indian political leadership apart, its military top brass has also taken an almost similar position by justifying the unilateral commando assault by American commandos to hunt down the most wanted al-Qaeda chief, without taking Islamabad into confidence. Indian Army chief General VK Singh even went to the extent of saying that the Indian armed forces were competent enough to carry out an operation similar to the one conducted by the US in Abbottabad against Osama. He was asked by reporters on May 4, 2011 in Lucknow whether the Indian armed forces could successfully carry out an Abbottabad-like operation. “I would like to say only this that if such a chance comes, then all the three arms of the military are competent to do this,” he said. General VK Singh’s statement was followed by Indian Air Chief Marshal PV Naik’s declaration that India surely has the capability to carry out an Abbottabad-like surgical strike. He was responding to a question — if the US can take out Osama bin Laden in a unilateral strike, why can’t India do the same with most wanted fugitives like Dawood Ibrahim, and others of his type, allegedly sheltering in Pakistan? These statements are significant given the fact that there had been demands after the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks that India should carry out surgical strikes on terror camps in Pakistan, especially in Muridke, to demolish the Lashkar-e-Taiba headquarters there. However, informed sources in the Pakistani security establishment maintain that had India been actually capable of carrying out any such surgical strikes in Pakistan, its armed forces would have done so in 2008 in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks. A security official, while requesting anonymity, said that what the American forces can do in Pakistan and get away with, the Indians won’t be able to afford. In the Indo-Pak context, he said, any such surgical strike by India would be tantamount to declaration of war. Even otherwise, the security official claimed, the absence of real-time intelligence about their specific targets, with exact coordinates, was one of the reasons that came in the way of an aerial strike by the Indian Air Force after the 26/11 Mumbai attacks. During an interview with CNN-IBN, Indian Home Minister Chidambaram seemed to have endorsed Pakistani official’s stance on May 4 by saying: “The United States is operating inside Pakistan, with the knowledge of its government. It has spies in the country, with the knowledge of its authorities. US was able to eliminate Osama because they were operating inside Pakistan with their approval. But India doesn’t have any operators in Pakistan. Indian defence forces are not operating in that country. So it is difficult to eliminate India’s most wanted terrorists like Dawood Ibrahim. We have to accept reality.” However, in a pre-emptive move, the Pakistani Foreign Office spokesman has already stated in an official policy statement on May 4, 2011: “This event of unauthorised unilateral action (against Osama bin Laden) cannot be taken as a rule. The Government of Pakistan further affirms that such an event shall not serve as a future precedent for any state, including the US. Such actions undermine cooperation and may also some time constitute threat to international peace and security.” On 4 May 2011 23:45, Kisan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Personally I think India could do limited strikes on people like Dawood, > Saeed and Sajid Mir particularly close in the aftermath of future atrocities > they participate in as payback. > > I think it would be effective to rid the major players and show future > ringleaders of terrorist groups that there is a price to be paid and that > the game of hiding behind a terrorist friendly Islamic Republic won't work > anymore. > > It might make extraditing such people more easily also as the cost of not > doing so for Pakistan rises. > > Let Pakistan go to war and lose over a Dawood, Saeed or Mir if they so > desire also. I don't think even Pakistan would go to war for such criminals. > > > --- In [email protected], Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@...> wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@...> > > Date: 4 May 2011 16:28 > > Subject: Why can't India do a US to the likes of Dawood, Saeed? > > To: IHRO <[email protected]>, issueonline < > > [email protected]>, [email protected], > > [email protected], Janshakti <[email protected]>, > > [email protected], bangla vision < > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > That's a terribly stupid question. > > > > The reasons are too simple. > > *One*, the military prowess of the US is too huge as compared to that of > > India. > > *Two*, while the US can hit Pakistan, Pakistan cannot similarly hit back. > > It's too far. In case of India, its furthest corner is within Pakistan's > > (nuke-tipped) missile range. > > *Three*, what people don't talk of, the US has paid huge amounts (maybe > > about 20 billion US $) in various aids to Pakistan since 9/11. So the US > can > > take some liberty which obviously others cannot. > > (How much India has???) > > > > The only way out is to improve relations with the neighbour on reciprocal > > basis and address legitimate grievances of (aggrieved) sections of own > > people. > > > > Sukla > > > > > http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-05-03/india/29499048_1_indian-intelligence-special-forces-anti-india > > > > Why can't India do a US to the likes of Dawood, Saeed? > > May 3, 2011, 02.07am IST > > Tags: > > > > - Osama bin Laden< > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/Osama-bin-Laden> > > > > > NEW DELHI: If the US can take out Osama bin > > Laden<http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/Osama-bin-Laden>, > > why can't India <http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/India>do the > same > > > with Dawood Ibrahim, Hafeez Saeed and others of their ilk? For starters, > > lack of political will, essentially due to the fear of an escalation with > a > > nuclear-armed Pakistan. > > > > But even if the traditionally risk-averse political leadership did decide > > that enough is enough, India simply does not have the wherewithal to > execute > > back ops. This is truer in terms of intelligence and planning, rather > than > > the capability of special forces themselves. > > > > Moreover, Pakistan <http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/Pakistan> > is > > > not a country with rag-tag armed forces. Any move to insert and later > > extract special forces deep inside Pakistan through helicopters, like the > US > > did to eliminate Osama, will have to contend with robust air defence > > networks and combat air patrols geared to shoot down "enemy" aircraft. > > > > With military bases, logistics, over-flight facilities and ongoing > > operations in Pakistan, the US faced no such hurdles. In the > India-Pakistan > > context, it would be tantamount to declaration of war. A "surgical > strike" > > would, in all probability, lead to a war-like situation, with Pakistan > > always being over-eager to brandish its nuclear weapons. > > > > But let's take intelligence first. Indian intelligence agencies like RAW > and > > IB suffer from several serious lacunae that prevent them from generating > and > > sustaining credible intelligence on high-value targets within Pakistan. > > > > A former senior intelligence official, for instance, admitted that they > were > > never able to gather specific details of all the anti-India > > terrorist-training camps that they have claimed exist in Pakistan and > > Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. This absence of "real-time" intelligence, with > > exact coordinates, was one of the reasons that came in the way of an > aerial > > strike by IAF fighters after the horrific 26/11 > > Mumbai<http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/Mumbai> > > > attacks. > > > > India, as yet, also does not have high-tech surveillance tools used by > the > > US, which can pick up even match-boxes on the ground through satellites, > or > > for that matter combat drones like Predators controlled from thousands of > > miles away. > > > > Another officer pointed out that Indian intelligence lacked the kind of > > discipline the US agencies had, especially on cultivating and sustaining > > sources. "Every source cultivated by an US intelligence operative is > > accounted for, and is verifiable," he explained. Conversely, in the > Indian > > system, "there are far too many loopholes" and most of the intelligence > flow > > is "hampered by vested interests and inabilities of individual > operatives". > > In fact, he said, that is one reason why many of them are in favour of > > parliamentary accountability, which would help improve the intelligence > > set-up. > > > > While Indian intelligence operatives have carried out successful > operations > > in places like Bangladesh< > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/Bangladesh> > > ,Nepal <http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/Nepal> and > > Myanmar<http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/Myanmar> to > > > target Indian terrorists, the record of surgical strikes deep inside > > Pakistan is virtually non-existent. Indian special forces, on their part, > > are well trained, capable of giving others a run for their money. The > > problem, however, lies in the fact that they have for long largely been > > treated as adjuncts to regular troops, restricted more to the tactical > arena > > rather than being considered strategic assets to be used sparingly but > with > > decisive effect. > > > > Moreover, it's only now that India is slowly strengthening its > "irregular" > > or "unconventional" warfare arm by modernizing the special forces of Army > > (Para-SF), Navy (Marcos) and IAF (Garuds) with specialized equipment to > > undertake covert missions deep behind enemy lines and hit high-value > targets > > with precision. > > > > Much more needs to be done. The crying need is for a tri-Service Special > > Forces Command, tasked with planning and executing clandestine warfare, > on > > the lines of the Strategic Forces Command, which deals with nuclear > weapons. > > > > The around 10,000 personnel of Para-SF, marine commandos and Garud need > to > > function under one umbrella, not in isolation as they currently do. "They > > should come under one command and control authority, with direct access > to > > the PMO and a separate budget," a senior officer said. > > > > "The stress should be on quality, not quantity. Special forces should be > > used to apply calibrated pressure at the strategic level, with plausible > > deniability if required, and not be reduced to some kind of > super-infantry," > > he added. > > -- > > Peace Is Doable > > > > > > > > -- > > Peace Is Doable > > > > __._,_.___ > Reply to > sender<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Fwd%3A%20Why%20can%27t%20India%20do%20a%20US%20to%20the%20likes%20of%20Dawood%2C%20Saeed%3F>| > Reply > to > group<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Fwd%3A%20Why%20can%27t%20India%20do%20a%20US%20to%20the%20likes%20of%20Dawood%2C%20Saeed%3F>| > Reply > via web > post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mahajanapada/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMWpwMmVmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzNDIwMjcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDQ0NTk3BG1zZ0lkAzE1Njk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMwNDU2MDU3NQ--?act=reply&messageNum=15694>| > Start > a New > Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mahajanapada/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbjVnNnZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzNDIwMjcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDQ0NTk3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMwNDU2MDU3NQ--> > Messages in this > topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mahajanapada/message/15693;_ylc=X3oDMTM2cmwxZmp1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzNDIwMjcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDQ0NTk3BG1zZ0lkAzE1Njk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMwNDU2MDU3NQR0cGNJZAMxNTY5Mw-->( > 2) > Recent Activity: > > > Visit Your > Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mahajanapada;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYnN0NzNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzNDIwMjcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDQ0NTk3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMwNDU2MDU3NQ--> > MARKETPLACE > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get > the Yahoo! 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