At 2026-09-12T09:31:29+0000, Jeff Conrad wrote: > > Sent: 11 September, 2026 10:20 PM > > Subject: Re: deprecating deroff & unroff (was: More UTP utility > > wibbles) > Branden Robinson wrote: > > > > With the addition of `-o` to the grotty(1) options, thus: > > > > groff -T ascii -P -cbou > > > > ...I frequently use this [technique] in groff's automated test > > scripts. > . . . > > I've been thinking about[1] adding a `-C` option to grotty to imply > > all of `-cbou`, plus a new option I need to add to defeat continuous > > underlining mode (`.cu`), which is the only vehicle by which one can > > still force grotty to overstrike when `-cbou` is specified. I've > > never gotten around to it before because continuous underlining is > > practically never used (and requires a special device control > > command even to use). > > Sounds like a good idea. Won’t help me much, because I may be > stuck at 1.22.3.
Argh! Why? My vanity is writhing in agony, because my first contributions didn't land in groff until 1.22.4... > But I have a similar option to my front-end to groff. Yeah, a > front-end to a front-end ... a story with long historical roots, > details of which I shall not bore you with. I won't chastise you. Ingo might. ;-) > Nowadays, it works just as well with “-Tutf8” or “-Tcp1252” > if you have it. Yes. Ah, you have a real cp1252 device rigged up? Maybe that's why you're stuck. I haven't heard of anyone doing a native Windows build in a very long time. If you're there and on 1.22.3, you're ahead of the latest version I know about, which is here. https://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/groff.htm Eli Zaretskii is the only person I know of who's worked on a win32 native build for groff (cf. Cygwin and MSYS2, both of which keep pace with our official releases). But as you can see there, he appears to have stopped at 1.20.1 [January 2009]. I'm afraid I managed to alienate him early in my days as a groff developer when I replied to an ancient groff ticket of his regarding portability to win32, and we had a "don't you know who I am?" moment that ended badly when I didn't. It's hard to test on systems that lack both a free toolchain and shell access. The FSF France's compiler farm has a lot of host systems, but we don't find Windows there. > In all fairness, I think I was guided in that direction by something I > read almost 40 years ago (I cannot remember what it was). Maybe a demonstration of *roff's runtime dynamism along the lines of the prime number gizmo I blathered about earlier, or maybe something simpler. Either of these might do. .ds S .tm hello, world! \*S .ec @ We are typesetting for a @*(.T device. > Suffice it to say that we dropped deroff like a hot rock except to > feed the spelling checker. And even that is not necessary if you use GNU troff syntax! 🥳 > As the immortal Yen Lo put it, My dear Dimitri, I keep forgetting > that you’re a young country and your attention span is _limited_. If that's a _Manchurian Candidate_ (1962) reference, I got it. If not, I'll put it on my bookcase of shame next to the copy of Koestler's _Darkness at Noon_ that I still haven't read. > It’s always amazing how we keep relearning what we learned and > then forgot. Perhaps as it always was and always will be. Eternal recurrence may not be an inherent property of the universe, but much evidence suggests that it is of human folly. Adam Thornton posted a nice insight to the TUHS list a while back. "As someone who did a lot of a Ph.D. in the history of computing, and then went into IT because he liked eating protein sometimes: The great secret is that NO ONE EVER READS THE LITERATURE. We have now made all the mistakes at least four times: Once for each of mainframes, minis, micros, and mobile. You can be a rock star at any development or operations job, even if you are, like me, a Bear Of Little Brain, simply by having some idea of what was tried already to solve a problem like this, and why it didn't work. Which you can get by actually stopping to read up about your problem before diving headfirst into coding up a solution for it. If you happen to get stinking rich from this advice, you can buy me a bottle of whiskey sometime." Regards, Branden
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