Christopher Allan Webber <cweb...@dustycloud.org> writes: > Luis Felipe López Acevedo writes: > >>> Really the design is really well made, no problem with that, I just >>> want to be sure that we won't disappoint the main audience and >>> attract a lot of newsbies which i think we are not ready for. >>> >>> If I can vote, I will +0. >> >> I get you point about the illustrations, but I disagree :) >> >> My Idea was to put "newbies" first without leaving out the experts. >> Maybe with this change we can push ourselves a bit to make the project >> be ready for people getting started in programming (it is not far from >> that, I think). > > I think this is absolutely the right goal, and the right call. I am > 100% behind the visual design, partly for this very reason! I like the > design, it is the right level of modern, crisp and professional design, > but with just the right touch of playfulness. That playfulness is > critical, I think. Consider the community we have, and the community we > would like to bring in? > > From what I've gathered, the traditional and public view of lisp and > scheme is of some ancient wizards (perhaps not so far from the cover of > SICP) casting spells from towers or potentially labs, maybe AI > labs... I love wizards, and lisp's history has a lot to thank of fairly > wizardly characters, but while wizards evoke a sense of magic, it is a > kind of unapproachable magic. > > The new design appeals to me: it retains a kind of magic, but it is the > kind of magic of childhood, and when Guile is at its best, this is > true. Guile is a magical, wonderful playground, and one whose limits is > your imagination and your patience. Perhaps you will indeed become a > powerful wizard, but maybe you will become a magician of some other > type. But no matter what, magic is under your fingertips from the very > beginning. Come play along! > > If you'll permit me to ramble a bit, I think Guile's community is at an > opportune time. It's not visible to the outside world so much yet, but > Guile's community is a deeply welcoming one... something that was > surprising to me when I entered. I've heard from plenty of others in > the community that one of the reasons this or that person stayed is > because of the level of patience and care given to questions, and this > is a great sign. > > We aren't a diverse community... look at the gender distribution on > these mailing lists, and that's telling enough. But Guile has the right > environment to become a better. Guile's three maintainers, Ludo, Andy > and Mark, have all expressed interest in becoming an even more welcoming > and diverse place. But that requires hard work. There are lots of > steps to be made, but how we present ourselves is foundational. > > To put it another way, many here have probably read the "Worse is > Better" essays. That paradox of "better" I think sticks in the craw of > many lispers; something both seems wrong and yet frustratingly right > about it. Maybe another way to look at it: "Worse is more accessible", > or "worse has the path of least resistance", or also importantly, "worse > is where I felt welcomed." Given that, no wonder many people feel safe > and better rather than what lispers believe is "the right thing". > > But maybe we could have both. I believe it requires effort, and perhaps > a rebranding of imagery. The wizard towers are still there if you want > them... I doubt any lisper or schemer will give up on Guile or Scheme > because of some fun and inviting drawings. The fun drawings don't take > anything away! But they add something: they make Guile feel like > somplace, even as a newcomer, you might belong. > > There's plenty more to do (and to be said) to make that true, but I > think this redesign is a great step in that direction. > > - Chris > > PS: As for the "it's not professional enough", most companies follow > where developers want to go these days anyway, and those who are so > entrenched in professionalism are probably "enterprise software" > shops. Those companies are already so deeply entrenched in Java or > .NET that I wouldn't worry about them at this point. :)
Thank you for these wonderful words. :-) A big +1 from me as well, for Luis' design and your words. Taylan