yes we will I am still hopeing for a situation where they use seperate keys for browsing threw the html buffer and leave the application behavior alone. advantages to this aproach. one if the sighted user comes along to use the system the screen reader doesn't get in his way. 2. the user doesn't have to concern himself with what mode is active. 3. these commands are all listed in the hot key manager and can be set up how he wants. 4. browser like ff will not turn the brows mode on when trying to feel out a form. 5. the concepts will be consistent across the board. remember not having to turn on a strange cursor like jaws cursor just to move a mouse pointer is one of the big advantages to window-eyes. 6. this concept could extend to other programs such as microsoft office. an example right now lets say you want to use the quick nav script insert z turns this mode on now press m or shift m to move to missed spelled words. now you have found the one you want press insert z again to turn this off and type normally in your document. the new aproach would be caps lock m or shift caps lock m find the word you want and correct it. nothing to turn on and off. it just works. adding capslock scrole lock the ability to use the right alt seperate from left etc would prevent the situation where quite frankly your going to run out of keys at some point. yeh yeh I know low keyboard hooking might cause some problems for some aps but as far as I know these are few and far between and the added functionality is worth it. -----Original Message----- From: Martin Thomas Schrott [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:37 AM To: Jim Grimsby JR. Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Suggestion
thanks, so this could be a great solution :-) We'll see, what gwmicro decides to do - or not do ... have a great time! Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Grimsby JR." <[email protected]> To: "'Martin Thomas Schrott'" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:16 AM Subject: RE: Window-Eyes Suggestion Hi, with jaws if you're dealing with a large edit box pressing escape will exit from the form control and allow you to brows away from it without having to review all the text. Hth -----Original Message----- From: Martin Thomas Schrott [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 7:08 AM To: Jim Grimsby JR. Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Suggestion okay, *smile* got that. yes, that should work on normal input boxes. But what, when using large textareas? e.g. when editing whole sites in texteditors on webpages? There you would have to scroll through all the text?... Sorry, I never saw jaws, so I have really no idea how that should work easyly. ;-) that is why I send that thoughts offlist, didn't want to start diskussions. Just tell you my thoughts on your ideas. *smile* So maybe you are right. In most cases that really could be okay ... Even WE users would have to relearn browsing of webpages :-) have a terrific day! martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Grimsby JR." <[email protected]> To: "'Martin Thomas Schrott'" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: RE: Window-Eyes Suggestion Hi, se how jaws does it and you then will not need to ask these questions. How-ever it is simple. Use the cursor to move the cursor. If you try to move beyond the text in the edit box you are informed that forms mode is off and your back in the virtual cursor. Or if you press tab and the next element is not a form control then you return to brows mode i.e. virtual cursor. If it is a form control then forms mode will remain on. Quite simple really. As I said the first time you're making this much harder than it has to be. -----Original Message----- From: Martin Thomas Schrott [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 12:56 AM To: Jim Grimsby JR. Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Suggestion And how would you then Navigate within the inputbox to read your text? Navigating using the cursor keys will no longer work, because you would browse away from your input box because automode will activate the browsemode again! Yeah, you defenitely could use caps lock,but then you won't be able to use caps lock as normal window eyes key, what many users do on laptops. All these users could not use their normal key-shortcuts any longer and that really would be more complicated then you think this is. I gave you two realistic facts, that prevent WE from being changed due to your ideas. I am not trying to bash your idea, but that would not make things easyer for most of us. :-) And turning on browse mode takes one keystroke and about half a second, so I really cannot see your problem. I like the browsemode and love it to navigate with single keypresses on webpages. How often do you enter something during browsing? ... Or do you fill in forms all the day? Then you maybe would be right in your thoughts. But most users won't do that. So if you want to use caps lock as your window eyes key, use the script that does this for you and let the browse mode be manually, think this should not be as hard to use. :-) all the best, martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Grimsby JR." <[email protected]> To: "'Martin Thomas Schrott'" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 8:28 AM Subject: RE: Window-Eyes Suggestion Hi, first your making this a lot harder then it has to be. Adding more prefixes would solve your first problem capslock would do it for example. And every screen reader accept window-eyes supports this as a prefix. Not trying to bash window-eyes but facts are facts. Second auto off would in fact work if you bothered to test the programs that used it you would clearly see that it does. First brows to the edit box. It is turned off. Brows away and it is turned on. So simple really. Once again though what really should happen is a prefix key should be added so you don't have to turn things off and on. Window-eyes needs more aggressive keyboard hooking caps lock as a prefix scrole lock as a prefix. Being able to over ride the windows commands so things like the jaws keyboard layout will work again. This is what is really needed here. Not some auto brows mode off and on. -----Original Message----- From: Martin Thomas Schrott [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 1:19 PM To: Jim Grimsby JR.; 'chris hallsworth' Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Suggestion hi together, I think, there would be several problems to remove the browse mode or impliment a browse mode autoo off function!!!! First, you would have to impliment another special key into all keyboards on the world. Why? Because you will have to use a second key to perform your browse commands ... and wich key would you like to use? ctrl? No, because then you coulld not use shortcuts of the programms anymore. win? no, because you could not use Windows shortcuts anymore... So wich other ones? yeah, you could press two special keys to use the browse mode, but then you would need more than one finger and you would loose all this commands for your personal shortcuts e.g. your scripts and so on. So this may not work... 2nd browse mode auto off This also will not work, how should the browser know, when you would like to enter something into a edit box? Or when you just want to go to the next one without entering some text into it...? And even when starting to type text would just turn off browse mode automatically, how should WE know, when you would like to stop entering the text? This would much more complicated, because you always would have to reactivate the browse mode at every input field you reach. And if you e.g. only need to enter every third one, you would have to reactivate the browse mode two times before reaching the next field you want to write into. I would not like to use such a strange system. I think everyone should be able to remember to press just an enter to write into a field and then reactivate the browse mode. This is and will ever be the easyest way of browsing webpages. Not at least because you only need single keystrokes to read, jump and enter something. Every other solution would be much more complicated and take a lot more keypresses! all the best, Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Grimsby JR." <[email protected]> To: "'chris hallsworth'" <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 7:23 PM Subject: RE: Window-Eyes Suggestion Sorry once again I have to disagree with this approach. The better thing in the long run is to get rid of brows mode. And put in keys that perform the task without having to turn one mode on and off. We have mouse keys so why not browsing document keys as well. So when you get to the form etc you just interact with the browser as you would with a normal program nothing to turn on and off and then when you want to scan the document use the window-eyes commands. The problem is going to be if we do it with auto forms mode or whatever you want to call it is people are going to be confused when forms mode is on and when they are interacting with brows mode. If you have a set of keys for browsing and use the normal programs command for everything else no confusing will happen. It is like with the mouse keys there is no confusing on if your moving the programs cursor or highlight or moving the mouse via window-eyes. Hth -----Original Message----- From: chris hallsworth [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:06 AM To: Ray Campbell Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Suggestion Another screen reader also has this capability. It's one of the free ones. Chris Hallsworth E-mail and Facebook: [email protected] MSN: [email protected] Skype: chrishallsworth7266 Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40 On 25/04/2010 17:04, Ray Campbell wrote: > Hello: > > I would like to suggest in a future release of Window-Eyes that an 'Auto > Browse Mode Off' feature be incorporated. I'm working with someone right > now who normally uses another screen reader with auto forms mode capability, > were you get to an edit box for example and just start typing something > without hitting enter first. The thing I'm working with her on requires > that she use Window-Eyes and she has found it a bit difficult to remember > that she has to hit enter to turn browse mode off in web forms before > entering data. The thing we are working on is a web application with > several edit boxes. > > Thanks, > > > Ray Campbell > [email protected] > > Check out my blog: packerbackerray.blogspot.com > Follow me on Twitter: www.twitter.com/packerbackerray > > > > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. > > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
