Hi,
As for marketing literature, usually it is just a general
"victure" of a product. Some people would not have grasp of tech
terms and want to deal with the decision as fast as they can.
Although with the trend of scrutiny, this seems to have raised
the possibility of people asking the drawbacks of these devices.
By the way, HIMS has just announced a Korean beta for the newer
firmware (I'm not telling you the version number nor features,
but one of them is a pretty neat one for music professionals).
Cheers,
Joseph P.S. MIDI, FLAC, "out of memory" error, DOCX, CSV...
(hahaha)
----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Hall <[email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date sent: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:50:57 -0400
Subject: Re: [GWN] frustrations about the Sense products
I agree with most of what was said, especially that companies
should
be a lot more vocal about just what their products cannot do.
When
Humanware says the Braillenote can access wireless email, it is
worth
noting that it is a lot slower than even a similarly powered
print
PDA, that some network encryption is not supported, that,
especially
on the mPower, the email database tends to corrupt itself and you
can
lose all your email (it happened to me six times, and I now rely
on
GMail)... When GWM says their wordprocessor allows you to edit
documents, they should come out and say that Word 2007 and later
is
not supported (I realize this will be fixed in the next version,
but
you get my point). These companies should make it clear that
flash is
not supported, and likely never will be, and should explain just
what
that means for the end user. I realize no one wants to read
about what
a product cannot do, but I think it is all too common to find
literature about a product explaining all of its wonderful
features
without mentioning, even in small print, the drawbacks; those
drawbacks could very well be the deciding factor as to whether a
user
buys a product or not, and, at these prices, the user should know
everything they can without having to try to locate a user group
and
ask, "So I read all this... but what is the company not telling
me?"
Someone said the bn has updated with the times. I have to very
strongly disagree. It is true that the Apex came out recently,
while
the BSP is the latest notetaker (not counting the forthcoming
VSQ)from
GWM. However, the BSP and Apex are well matched in features.
Except
for the price and physical size, they are very similar - it just
took
hw longer to catch up. The Sense family still has MSN support
(much
more used than GoogleTalk or Jabber) as well as having
multi-tasking,
something HW has made no mention of.
On 5/14/10, Colleen Roth <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi All,
I personally am very pleased with my Braille Sense Classic and
Braille Sense
Plus.
They do what I need them to do for me.
They do not require me to know a lot of things I would have to
know if I
used a Laptop or Netboook.
I for one would stop using email or the Internet if this was not
available
to me.
I have also used the Braille Note.
I can say that I have been very pleased with Gw Micro's Tech
Support and
answers on this list.
I would rather have a-pany do a good job with updates and have
them less
often.
If you are not pleased with your Braille Sense I suggest you
check into the
other products out there.
I am not saying it is perfect, I am saying that it is the best
product on
the Market in my opinion.
I did not like Keysoft and am glad for my Bs and BS PLUS.
Thanks Gw Micro and Hims.
Colleen Roth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edwards, Paul" <[email protected]
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]
Date: 2010/05/14 19:32:06
Subject: RE: [GWN] FRUSTRATIONS ABOUT THE Sense products
I think it is important to acquire some perspective on this
issue. I do
not currently own a gps system and will therefore disqualify
myself from
that issue as uninformed. I have had and used a gps system with
braille
note products but that was several years ago also.
I think there is room for blind people to be dissatisfied with
product
updating. However, I think that the dissatisfaction ought to
apply across
the board. I think it is worth noting that the sense products
have yet to
charge for upgrades. The Humanware folks certainly do charge
for the
braille note family. I was disheartened to see that the
introduction of
the Apex did not seem to include many changes to the programs
that were
run. Sure, there is more memory and built-in wireless and blue
tooth.
But I think a lot of us thought that this major upgrade and its
attendant
price tag would have also included more changes.
It is my belief that product developers have an obligation to
update
frequently if that is necessary to maintain functionality and
competitiveness. I think there are some major issues in this
area that
the sense products have allowed themselves to fall behind the
cure on.
Shakespeare said that comparisons are odious and I have sympathy
with
that concept. Those who make and sell the Sense note takers
have made a
choice as to whether they were going to charge for upgrades.
Regardless
of the economics of that decision, I think there is no excuse
for a
failure, by now, to support word 2007 files. I also do believe
that the
internet has changed enough over the past few years and the
Sense products
and the humanware note takers and perhaps even the Freedom
Scientific not
taker have all failed either to come up with solutions that make
the web
more accessible or to say up front that such access has serious
limitations.
I absolutely concur with whoever said that mainstream products
must be
updated to be saleable and so they are changed whenever there is
a need.
I do not think that blindness products as a group perceive that
they have
the same level of obligation to those who have chosen their
products. I
think that it is a generalized disdain for blind owners
expressed through
a failure to change enough with the times that we need to
deplore.
I find myself wondering also if we are operating during a time
of
transition where the relatively inexpensive net book and lap top
are
making inroads into the viability of note takers. Could we be
approaching
a threshold below which change will not happen. Some of us
lived through
the decline and fall of the braille lite millennium and know
only too well
that, after a very short life, Freedom Scientific stopped
upgrading the
device. I own a millennium, a braille plus, and a voice sense
and have
owned braille notes as well. I think what frustrates all of us
who use
these devices is the fact that, if truth be told, none of these
devices is
as transparent to the internet or to email as computers are.
Perhaps this
is the price we have to pay for a braille display or a braille
keyboard
Perhaps, however, we have reached the point where we need to say
that,
given the fact that we could buy ten net books for every braille
sense we
might consider buying, we, or someone, is not getting enough
return on the
investment. In general, I hold the following truths to be
self-evident
and relevant.
We have a right not to be disadvantaged by products that we have
paid a
high premium for and such products need to be updated regularly,
whether
we are charged for those upgrades or not. Blind owners of
technology
ought to have the same right to expect that their products can
be used
where they are designed to be used as do people without
disabilities who
purchase products that do the same tasks. Perhaps most
important of all
is my belief that vendors have an obligation to discuss the
limitations of
their products. Given the quantity of flash and java-enabled
stuff on the
net, for instance, I think that folks ought to know about the
limitations
of the note takers in terms of accessing sites that make
widespread use of
either of these technologies.
It does not matter to me who paid for the products we own. I
paid for all
of mine myself with no support from my employer or the vr
system. We are
the end users of the technology and must be able to rely on it
to do what
we bought it to do. Somebody paid a lot of money for the access
tech
products we have. Is it reasonable that we are on a declining
spiral of
usability as the net changes and our products do not? I
understand and,
to some degree, accept the argument about a small market.
However, we pay
a high price for these products which should take care of the
disincentive
to update. In some cases, we also pay for maintenance
agreements for
which we sometimes get very little in return. I am not sure we
are yet at
the stage of "broadcast News" but I think that there is less and
less
being done for these devices so they are all, to a greater or
lesser
extent, causing us to be further and further behind our
non-disabled
peers.
I would argue that GW Micro tries hard to apply the principles I
am
espousing with their screen reader. Are we at the stage where
not taker
for the blind manufacturers are more concerned about keeping up
with the
competition than they are in making sure their products do what
they are
supposed to do? Is that competition asking that each product do
a bunch of
things because other products do a bunch of things? Are we at
the stage
where we as consumers and access technology producers must work
to develop
a new paradigm to measure both the viability of products and
what
consumers really need and want?
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Duarte [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 2:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [GWN] FRUSTRATIONS ABOUT THE Sense products
Raul,
I live in Phoenix Arizona. there are several things I have
attempted to
search for using my sense nav and the results returned to me
were either,
incorrect, could not be found, or gave directions that were
inaccurate.
now
if we are only talking about streets, cities, and states over
all, the
Sense
Nav is great. the streets in phoenix never change. what
changes is the
businesses, locations, and information. staying up to date with
all this
information when it is ever changing would be impossible if maps
were
updated every year, but to let it go out three plus years would
be
virtually
ridiculous to expect any kind of accurate information. let me
explain... I
searched for a restaurant that I knew was on a particular corner
just did
not know the phone number. I searched using the search by name,
then
category, then by setting my virtual position to that corner and
doing a
look around. still no results were returned for the restaurant.
after I
thought about it the POI I was looking for was only there for
about two
years or so. as I looked for other businesses such as a local
gym, gas
station, and restaurant about half of the searches were not
easily found,
were not found, or the information given was not correct. the
only reason
I
do not use the sense nav currently is because at this point the
maps on
the
sense nav are to far behind for Phoenix and its metro areas ever
changing
and growing communities. I do not expect for a GPS SYSTEM FOR
SIGHTED OR
blind to be 100 percent accurate, but what I do expect is for a
product
such
as a GPS SYSTEM TO STAY AS CURRENT AS POSSIBLE. Sendero is a
very big name
in GPS FOR THE BLIND, THEY HAVE A GREAT SYSTEM, AND ALWAYS HAVE
UP TO DATE
maps for their devices. my only question is what has taken so
long for the
Sense nav? when the voice sense and the Braille sense came out
the talk
was
that these products were top of the line, were small, powerful,
and had
lots
of promises in store for the future. well three years later,
there are
little to no major upgrades on OS, THE Daisy player still has no
support
for
RFB AND D, NLS AUDIO BOOKS, AND STILL NO UPDATES FOR PROGRAMS
RUNNING ON
THE
voice sense. the Braille note is evolving every year and
changing with the
times while the sense products seem to be three years back. I
guess it is
just frustrating because I bought a voice sense because the
size, power,
and
possibilities. three years later I am starting to feel let
down, and that
maybe I made the wrong decision.
Raul I know you are very passionate about the products you have
and I know
you always try to help everyone with them, my only problem is
that all of
the sense users bought a device that they hoped was going to
shine when
they
bought it and continue to shine through the years to come. we
are not so
bright these days. please take these things I say as a
frustrated customer
who would like to voice their opinion somewhere that it might be
heard and
taken into consideration. this is in no way a direct slander
towards GW
Micro, Sendero, or Hims.
Bryan Duarte Blind Ambitions
-----Original Message-----
From: Raul A. Gallegos [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [GWN] FRUSTRATIONS ABOUT THE Sense products
Bryan, I'm curious, where you live, have the maps changed that
much from
2007 to 2010 that it makes your current SenseNav unusable like
you say?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing what you say and I'm not
trying to
come off like what you say isn't important. However in testing
the 2010
maps and comparing them to the various cities I've traveled to
or
checked out in virtual mode, not much has changed other than
some
updated names for major roads. What has changed a lot is the
POI DATA.
Regarding the SyncBraille, if it's out of warranty, with any
hardware
product, a standard $45 analysis charge is always charged. So
we are not
singling you out here with it. Regarding the firmware, I have
personally
been pushing for new updates for a long time. Whether you
believe me or
not is up to you, but I think that anyone who knows me will
believe that
I feel strongly that the Sense notetakers are very good and they
need to
stay up-to-date. If I had the rights and resources, I would
have updated
them myself.
Many thanks.
On 5/13/2010 11:05 AM, Bryan Duarte wrote:
I am with you on this issue sir. I bought a voice sense, sync
Braille,
and the sense nave right when they were released. now I have
had a voice
sense with no promised up grades, a sync Braille that no longer
works
and to get it fixed they want to charge me 45 dollars a half
hour to
diagnose the problem then parts and labor is separate, and a
sense nav
that has maps from who knows how long ago with no information on
when
and how much a new upgrade will cost. don't get me wrong I love
my voice
sense and the sync Braille when it worked was great. the sense
nav was
awesome when the map was accurate but now that times have moved
on and
the technology has not things are looking down on the
distributors and
manufacturers. to me making new products when the old products
you
currently have are not being maintained is a little backwards I
think. I
use to use my voice sense a lot more when it was an all in one
device
that was up to date on all systems. now that I have a firm ware
that
could not even pretend to bat an eye at other note takers and a
sense
nav that was awesome three years ago when it was somewhat
accurate as to
what was around me, but now I have over 8 thousand dollars
invested into
a refreshable Braille display that acts as a Braille paper
weight, and a
GPS RECEIVER THAT TAKES UP SPACE IN MY TRAVEL BACK PACK JUST
WAITING TO
come out and play some day in the future.
Bryan Duarte Blind Ambitions
ininF:* erik burggraaf [mailto:[email protected]]
ininSent:* Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:36 AM
ininTo:* [email protected]
ininSubject:* Re: [GWN] Tip1 for the new Sense notetaker
firmware
Again, it's the licensing, not the software that is at
issue.
What I'm reading is that braille note and mobile geo can
physically
share map data on properly licensed and compatible devices,
but
braille sense can't, which is a severe limitation.
Don't forget that all these devices are built on the same
development kit, no matter what brand name you put on it.
That
doesn't make them all equal, but it at least holds out the
option to
have them compatible. An option which, based on what people
are
saying here, braille note and mobile geo offer, but sensenav
does
n..
Then we have the issue of the licensing for current maps.
For
example, I've just found out that 2010 maps are only
licensed to
mobile geo 2. That of course is so that I and others like
me will
have to by mspbled and mgeo2 to get a current map, which we
have the
option to do. But if the 2010 map were licensed to
sensenav, then
one way or the other sensenav could use it. Taking care of
this
licensing shouldn't require a firmware upgrade, but if it
did, then
it could be done by a patch without requiring an entire
firmware,
since they did that very thing for the braille note. If a
fee had
to be charged for upgrading maps, well, so be it. Everyone
has a
right to make money at what they do. Users who aren't
greatly
effected by using old map data can buy a case of beer on the
weekend, where-z hard core travellers who need consistent
accuracy
could go without for a weekend or two and get the upgrade.
In fact,
I'm reasonably sure that any one who forked out 6 grand for
a bsp,
and $1600 for sensenav are not going to quibble at a $60-$80
upgrade
fee for the map data for their high priced kit. Even
sighted gps
users incur that cost, although most commercial gps are
farely
disposable and so the cost is usually built into a whole new
unit
and they don't realize they're paying for it.
This doesn't seem like rocket science to me. Old map,
increasingly
inaccurate, potential time, money and safety concern.
Answer, give
the customer an option to pay for a new map when an update
becomes
available. Then if you want to trundle around unfamiliar
areas with
a three year old map on your $8000 gps, well you go on and
giver,
but the rest of us can be getting on with the best possible
information, especially when you're like me and you need it
for work
or school.
best,
Erik Burggraaf
Join me Wednesday, May 26th at CNIB Tech Aids fair in
Toronto. I'll
be at the assistive computing booth from 2 to 4 in the
afternoon and
circulating for the rest of the day.
http://www.erik-burggraaf.com
888-255-5194
On 2010-05-12, at 5:18 AM, Keith Bucher wrote:
Erik,
Sense Nav is a HIMS OR Gw Micro product not a Sendero
product.
Sendero licenses it to GW Micro and HIMS. If you use
Sense
Nav,
as of right now, you are stuck with the 2007 maps. The
later
maps
are just for the Braillenote products from Humanware.
Keith
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--
Raul A. Gallegos
GW Micro Technical Support And Product Specialist
Voice 260-489-3671, Fax 260-489-2608
Web http://www.gwmicro.com
If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, visit:
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--
Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
[email protected]; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
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