Doug,
Why I was stating that I feel Non-English users loose out, is due to the
feedback I originally got from the Norwegian dealer. They told me, that I would
not be entitled to anything in English, and if I decided to change my serial
number to an English version of WE, I would loose this and that kind of rights,
like I would no longer have the ability to make mobile copy of WE.
Now, you write:
All versions of Window-Eyes ship with the English resources. It is just if it
finds
the non-English ones, it uses them. So you could set your copy of Window-Eyes
up
to Run with English strings and act as if it is an English copy. You still
would
have all the other localized files like context help, tip of the day, phonetic
spelling,
set files, etc. not be in English, but everything else would be English. I
could
walk you through the couple of steps if you are so interested.
Or, we also offer a full English copy to any non-English Window-Eyes user. The
only
issue is you can't have multiple versions of Window-Eyes installed on the same
machine
but you could install one of the languages normally and install the other as a
mobile
install on your hard drive. Setup two separate desktop shortcuts and you launch
whichever version you want.
So I really don't think things are as gloom and doom as you seem to be alluding
to.
First of all, yes please walk me through the steps. And secondly, what would I
need to get the English version you are talking about. I then - like you
suggest - could have the Norwegian version running normally, and have an
English Mobile version; or the other way around maybe.
I do apologize, in case you found my original statements not to be fully true,
but as I said, I base it on the feedback i've previously gotten from our local
dealer. Teh person who gave me the info, even claimed that he had been in touch
with GW, to confirm his statements. Somewhere, it seems to me from your info
given today, there must have been a misunderstanding then. Or, do I misread
your message totally here.
Regards,
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Geoffray
To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: To all Natively English speaking users - I need some feedback:
David,
First, you aren't forced to use a non-English version of WE (smile).
But if you are using a Norwegian version of Window-Eyes with an English
synthesizer, what would it sound like to have the Norwegian localized version
of the string "nineteen" and the Norwegian localized version of the string
"ninety" come through an English synthesizer? So it isn't so much the
synthesizer as it is the localized Window-Eyes strings being used. We aren't
doing this to be mean <smile>, we are doing this because it makes sense.
As for the 2 number rules, I'm guessing your extensive search of all
languages <smile> doesn't surpass the experience I've heard from our
localizers. The synthesizer options wasn't my idea, this came from several of
our localizers. I would argue if this was as common as you say, why doesn't the
localized speech synthesizer do it natively?
But the beauty is we've given you the ability to do whatever you want in an
app. You can trap the number pronunciation event and do whatever it is you
want for whatever language you are dealing with. It is extremely easy to
override whatever Window-Eyes is doing. I guarantee no matter what approach we
select, there will be someone that wants it differently...which is why we've
given the tools to do your own thing.
All versions of Window-Eyes ship with the English resources. It is just if
it finds the non-English ones, it uses them. So you could set your copy of
Window-Eyes up to Run with English strings and act as if it is an English copy.
You still would have all the other localized files like context help, tip of
the day, phonetic spelling, set files, etc. not be in English, but everything
else would be English. I could walk you through the couple of steps if you are
so interested.
Or, we also offer a full English copy to any non-English Window-Eyes user.
The only issue is you can't have multiple versions of Window-Eyes installed on
the same machine but you could install one of the languages normally and
install the other as a mobile install on your hard drive. Setup two separate
desktop shortcuts and you launch whichever version you want.
So I really don't think things are as gloom and doom as you seem to be
alluding to. We really do like our non-English users (smile).
Doug
On 5/23/2012 11:28 AM, David wrote:
Doug,
I disagree a bit, when you state that English rules should not be used in
Non-English versions. Even if I am forced to use a non-English version of the
WE, I still do most of my computing in English. As such, I am running
Eloquence. Eloquence should - in my opinion - be handling numbers according to
English rules, no matter which localized version of WE you are running. So, in
a future version of WE, the verbose section should have a kind of choice, where
the user could decide which rules - local or English, or any other locale
version - he wanted to use.
OK, so what about the app? Well, since it is going to be released
internationally, I do have to consider wishes even from Non-English version
users. The way things are handled, I don't see that this will cause any
inconvenience to the English users, but definitely will be able to handle
something that GW forcefully have removed from non-English versions - if I get
your statements correct.
Besides, since I now tell you, that we are using the 2+2 pronounciation
even in non-English languages, I really don't understand why GW ever dropped
the rule for the non-English versions of WE. I have already received feedback
from a few non-English users, who can confirm the 2+2 format, is quite commonly
used internationally. So, then, why does Window-Eyes not follow custom?
Another user pointed this out, that producing apps when using a non-English
version of WE, is quite challenging sometimes. I really wish GW would take
steps to let us use the English environment, when developing apps. It is
somehow discouraging for app developers outside the English-speaking world, to
run into this kind of situations.
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Geoffray
To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: To all Natively English speaking users - I need some
feedback:
David,
Because you are using a non-English version of Window-Eyes you are
getting a different view than someone using English. With the English
Window-Eyes 4 digit numbers are broken as you say. But this is actually a
verbosity option in the Screen / Other group. There is a Numbers option which
can be set to off, on or Synthesizer. Off just speaks all numbers one digit at
a time. Synthesizer will send the number to the synthesizer untouched,
allowing it to speak it they way it would. On will cause Window-Eyes to do
some massaging of the text. So in the case of a 4-digit number, it will break
it into 2 2-digit numbers for example. It does other things with times and
money and such as well.
But for non-English languages, even if this setting is set to on, it
forces it internally to synthesizer. It doesn't make sense to use English
rules on a non-English Window-Eyes.
Doug
On 5/23/2012 9:50 AM, David wrote:
In my local Non-English language, we often use to divide the four digit
year number, into two groups of two-digits. That is, the year 1995, would be
pronounced as 19 95.
As I am working on the Extended Dictionary app, that has been anounced
on the list earlier, I wanted to know, what is the official way of pronouncing
year numbers in English. Or, at least, what is the general wish of the
community. As you all will have noticed, Eloquence by standard wants to read
out the year as a full four-digit number. At least to me, I find that rather
wearisome, as the number 1981 would produce more verbage, than would 19 81.
The app is doing quite a bit of Date handling, and there is a chance
here to modify the way of reading year numbers. And, just to calm you all down,
the stuff can easily be modified by the end-user. Yet, I want to know, if it
would be the wish of the community, to have some kind of modified
pronounciation of the years, shipping with the app.
All feedback will be appreciated. Thanks alot,
David
(The Author of the Extended Dictionary app)
PS: The Extended Dictionary appp is currently in its Beta-testing
process. Hopefully, it will be made available to the community later this
summer. Still, this question goes to the whole community, since it has been
considered of vital importance. All the modification the app will be performing
to any speech output, can be fully controled by the user. Even if the app ships
with a set of modifications, the user is free to do what he wants with the
shipped entries.
