Doug and all, Sorry, I went to delete my default signature and it appeared to delete the meat of my message too.
Doug’s interpretation is correct from what I understand, but I asked my daughter just to make sure. I also looked up the equation in Wikipedia that was mentioned, and it seemed that either the graphics are labeled with text in the Wikipedia article or else the Macintosh is reading equations on that page. Look at section Translational energy and ideal gases (my macintosh does read this equation) but also marks it as a graphic and describes it as Description list and does not allow me to single character through the equation. Thanks, Jonathan On Mar 8, 2014, at 4:55 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn <[email protected]> wrote: > Doug, > > > Jonathan > Best wishes, > > Jonathan > > > > On Mar 8, 2014, at 1:55 PM, Doug Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Wondering if my interpretation of that one is correct; I produced >> LaTeX documents often enough in college, but that was 30 years ago... >> Mostly I'm not sure what the <..> construct means, unless that's a >> bracketing style similar to parentheses. Assuming that, we have >> >> \frac{1}{2}k<x^2> = \frac{1}{2} k_B T >> >> One half k times the quantity x squared >> equals >> One half k sub B times T >> >> On Sat, Mar 08, 2014 at 01:15:44PM -0500, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote: >> I decided to ask my daughter who will soon be teaching High School >> Physics... >> >> I will attach a complete TeX or LaTeX equation below. LaTeX is an macro >> extension to TeX that eventually converts into TeX before being >> rendered on a page. Note also that Microsoft Word has a plugin that >> helps with equation editing. >> >> \begin{equation} >> >> \frac{1}{2}k<x^2> = \frac{1}{2} k_B T >> >> \end{equation} >> >> Equipartition theory >> >> Also note that Macintosh OS 10.9 claims to have support for MathML but >> I believe there were some grumblings about the support being there but >> not really there. This might be like how Mac OS had UI programming >> available a version before VoiceOver came out, and if you tried really >> hard you could have written a screen reader for that OS. So what I am >> trying to say is that perhaps in the current version there is a >> framework but that true support in applications will not be available >> for a couple of years. >> >> Hope my ramblings give you some direction in solving your issues. >> >> Jonathan >> >> >> Best wishes, >> Jonathan >> On Mar 8, 2014, at 12:57 PM, RicksPlace <[1][email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Guys: >> Well, I ended up back with the mathml xml based articles. I have no >> idea how well they are supported out there, from what I've seen not >> very well for the vast majority of sites I've visited and Google says >> they have no plans to support it in their browser anytime soon, they >> actually had it and dropped it. >> There is support, or was support, in IE and Firefox I think but there >> were problems with IE and firefox did not implement it fully as far as >> I read in a few overview type articles. >> To use mathml requires a plug-in, not sure microsoft supports them >> anymore, or some other type of third party software which is sort of >> getting out there for something that should just be a part of >> accessibility in the first place. In other words, however the equations >> are rendered I should think it the function of a screen reader to read >> it correctly based on at least one or 2 of the major formats ie LaTex >> or mathml etc... and I dont think WindowEyes does that and I dont know >> anything about the other screen readers but my guess is they dont do it >> either. >> Perhaps it would be possible to create a script for the LaTex formats >> but after going through the w3c stuff on mathml I wouldnt have a clue >> on designing a script to even attempt to translate that stuff. >> So what is going on? MathML is suppose to be the standard but nobody >> really wants to support it and it is way too complicated for a simple >> guy like me to try and work with. >> So I dont expect any improved accessibility unless Microsoft implements >> it since Google is not going, or wernt, going to do it and others are >> starting to fall back on the other methods of rendering. >> Now that html5 has tags for mathml some supporters say it will start up >> again but where is it in the news for the new releases of various >> products? >> Rick USA >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: [2]Jonathan C. Cohn >> >> To: [3][email protected] >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 12:33 PM >> >> Subject: Re: WE and Advanced Math and Science Symbols >> >> You might want to look at Nemith code, a braille way of >> interpretscienfic notation. >> >> Best wishes, >> Jonathan >> On Mar 8, 2014, at 10:54 AM, RicksPlace <[4][email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Again: >> Googling I found these tags are related to font definitions. >> Several versions are mentioned in a couple of articles so far: >> Mathematical Notation: LaTeX, Mathematica, HTML Entities, Unicode >> >> Do you know if these are a standard font thingy and should either my >> browser or WindowEyes be automatically picking them up and speaking >> them in the correct manner? >> >> Perhaps my browser is too old, not sure. >> >> Rick USA >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: [5]RicksPlace >> >> To: [6][email protected] >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 10:15 AM >> >> Subject: Re: WE and Advanced Math and Science Symbols >> >> Hi Guys: >> Thought Id start with Wikipedia since it covers allot of general >> descriptions - not a teaching tool but an explanitory tool. >> Now, symbols seem to be represented by some kind of standardized use of >> tags. >> Do you recognize the use of the tags below as a standardized >> methodology of some sort and, if so, what is it called? >> I put in a few examples so someone might recognize something. >> <BeginSamples> >> Vector notation >> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia >> the common >> typographic convention >> is upright boldface type, as in >> \mathbf{v} >> OK guys here they are just displaying {V} but use a prefix tag: >> \mathbf >> ... >> Another example: >> or unwieldy, vectors are often represented with >> right-pointing arrow notation or harpoons >> above their names, as in >> \vec{v} >> Here they use a tag: >> \vec >> before the actual math of {v} >> ... >> Another example: >> A rectangular vector in >> \mathbb{R}^n >> can be specified using an ordered >> set >> of components, enclosed in either parentheses or angle brackets. >> In a general sense, an n-dimensional vector v >> can be specified in either of the following forms: >> \mathbf{v} = (v_1, v_2, \dots, v_{n - 1}, v_n) >> \mathbf{v} = \langle v_1, v_2, \dots, v_{n - 1}, v_n \rangle >> Where v1, v2, ..., vn - 1, vn are the components of v. >> Matrix notation >> [ >> edit >> ] >> A rectangular vector in >> \mathbb{R}^n >> can also be specified as a row or column >> matrix >> containing the ordered set of components. A vector specified as a row >> matrix is >> known as a >> row vector >> ; one specified as a column matrix is known as a >> column vector >> . >> Again, an n-dimensional vector >> \mathbf{v} >> can be specified in either of the following forms using matrices: >> \mathbf{v} = \left[ \begin{matrix} v_1 & v_2 & \cdots & v_{n - 1} & v_n >> \end{matrix} >> \right] = \left( \begin{matrix} v_1 & v_2 & \cdots & v_{n - 1} & v_n >> \end{matrix} >> \right) >> \mathbf{v} = \left[ \begin{matrix} v_1 \\ v_2 \\ \vdots \\ v_{n - 1} \\ >> v_n \end{matrix} >> \right]= \left( \begin{matrix} v_1 \\ v_2 \\ \vdots \\ v_{n - 1} \\ v_n >> \end{matrix} >> \right) >> Where v1, v2, ..., vn - 1, vn are the components of v >> . In some advanced contexts, a row and a column vector have different >> meaning; see >> covariance and contravariance of vectors >> . >> Unit vector notation >> [ >> edit >> ] >> A rectangular vector in >> \mathbb{R}^3 >> (or fewer dimensions, such as >> \mathbb{R}^2 >> where vz >> below is zero) can be specified as the sum of the scalar multiples of >> the components >> of the vector with the members of the standard >> basis >> in >> \mathbb{R}^3 >> . The basis is represented with the >> unit vectors >> \boldsymbol{\hat{\imath}} = (1, 0, 0) >> , >> \boldsymbol{\hat{\jmath}} = (0, 1, 0) >> , and >> \boldsymbol{\hat{k}} = (0, 0, 1) >> . >> A three-dimensional vector v can be specified in the following form, >> using unit vector >> notation: >> \mathbf{v} = v_x \boldsymbol{\hat{\imath}} + v_y >> \boldsymbol{\hat{\jmath}} + v_z >> \boldsymbol{\hat{k}} >> Where vx, vy, and vz are the magnitudes of the components of v. >> Polar vectors >> [ >> edit >> ] >> wiki/File:CircularCoordinates.svg >> It goes on to other vectors for circles etc... >> <EndOfSamples> >> Rick USA >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: [7]LB >> >> To: [8][email protected] >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 8:18 AM >> >> Subject: Re: WE and Advanced Math and Science Symbols >> >> Hi Rick, >> >> >> >> I guess having standard symbols for the math, then splitting each >> up, isolating them, then using a graphics label for each, store them in >> your set file and such, then go from there. Just a thought, but seems >> like a simple way to do it. >> >> >> >> Most equations use the sup script and such for integrals and can be >> messy at times but not impossible. But think standard symbols may be a >> problem at the publishers end. But in a set file you can sort them out >> based on the publishers usage. >> >> >> >> Most equations use hyperbolic math for nothing goes in a straight >> line in physics. That can result in lots of funny math. But keep in >> mind that all particles are waves and you can always wave back...:) >> >> >> >> The reality of our universe is all stuff is on a plain and that >> plain is infinite in nature, in other words take a book and stack it's >> pages on into infinity and each page is a plain, but so small you could >> never find it, but when trying to get them apart you kind of get a >> nuclear bomb, for they do not want to be bothered and have the strength >> to prove it. >> >> >> >> touch one part of that thin sheet and it responds back some where, >> the spooky thing Einstein's discovered in relativity. It is like >> watching a insect on the surface of a lake or body of water and watch >> it vibrate...surface tension. >> >> >> >> Enough about god and where he is, he is just every where. A part of >> each sheet stacked forever. >> >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 6:46 AM >> >> Subject: WE and Advanced Math and Science Symbols >> >> Hi: >> >> What is it about screen readers where they have so much trouble reading >> advanced math and, or, science characters? >> >> For example, what about the Calcus symbols or the standard ones often >> used in describing the EM Field variables? >> >> Has anyone ever done anything trying to write a script for say either a >> book reader or even internet pages to make the equations read well? >> >> I have been looking at many sites lately related to quantum mechanics >> and light and found many, all?, sites using equations where either I >> get a line of characters that dont make sense to me or a blank space >> where a given symbol, image?, is located within the equations. >> >> I know there are third party packages that might, repeat might, work >> perhaps with braille but why cant a screen reader like WindowEyes with >> it's attendant dictionaries be used to read these pages or books? >> >> I am wondering if the pages or software could be scripted in some way >> to make advanced math and science equations readable with WindowEyes. >> >> Just a consideration at this point and not even a thought of being a >> scripting project but just the question of why it hasent been done by >> the screen reader companies and if anyone has ever tried to script >> something to enable it for WindowEyes in the past. >> >> Rick USA >> _______________________________________________________________ >> >> [9][LINK] >> >> This email is free from viruses and malware because [10]avast! >> Antivirus protection is active. >> >> References >> >> 1. mailto:[email protected] >> 2. mailto:[email protected] >> 3. mailto:[email protected] >> 4. mailto:[email protected] >> 5. mailto:[email protected] >> 6. mailto:[email protected] >> 7. mailto:[email protected] >> 8. mailto:[email protected] >> 9. http://www.avast.com/ >> 10. http://www.avast.com/ >> >> -- >> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer >> SSB BART Group - Accessibility-on-Demand >> mailto:[email protected] http://www.ssbbartgroup.com >> "While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, >> it was done." --Helen Keller >> >
