At 09:11 01/03/2006, you wrote:
At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote:
I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like.
Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this
image below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached sleeve?
http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60
zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working
whacking something. She's wearing green dress with short upper
sleeves, and a pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel?
or something in her hands.
Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England.
She's also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of
something similar to what we can't see under Tudor gowns?
Kimiko
She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours.
http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/michele/index.html
(A Hungarian working in Ferrara mid 15th century)
And there are several short sleeved garments in paintings by Rogier
van der Weyden, c. 1450, one of which clearly shows the pin holding
the sleeve on, although this may actually be from the shoulder strap.
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg
(The Altarpiece of the Seven Sacraments,
http://www.shop-com.co.uk/amos/cc/main/prod/act/21946059/ccsyn/261
You will have to enlarge this - she is the figure on the bottom right
of the centre panel.
The Descent from the Cross (huge, in the Prado in Madrid. She is
wearing what looks like a gown made from oblongs of wool - quite
fascinating- I spent ages in front of it and still haven't worked it
out!). (Also called the Deposition from the Cross)
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/decent.jpg
I realise these are not 16th century, but short sleeves kirtles were
obviously worn earlier, so is it possibly that the fashion could have
continued in the later period?
Suzi
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