I am not going to add to what all have said regarding usability. The current suggested design looks like a button, no doubt about that. No effect on usability here from my pov. I am officially +1 for the custom buttons as they stand in the screenshots now.
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Chris Meller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > How about we check a little of the FUD first and actually hear the > counter-opinion before we vote and at least maintain the perception that > we're doing this with open minds? > > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:59 AM, Matthias Bauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> >> Hey everyone, >> >> instead of yet another revert-commit-revert fight, here's a call for a >> vote on the matter of using the default OS widgets (buttons, dropdowns, >> etc.) or whether to style them via CSS. > > > RandyWalker shouldn't have reverted it until after the vote was completed, > BTW. Up until that point there had been no organized consensus that > countered their attractiveness. > > > The problems I have with styled widgets: >> >> - The styled buttons look bad in Chrome/Chromium, Safari 3, and likely >> other WebKit browsers, due to the lack of antialiasing on rounded >> borders. I haven't even checked in IE. > > > It looks fine to me in Safari 3 on both Windows and OS X: > http://dump.chrismeller.com/habari_buttons-safari.png > > In fact, it looks identical to Firefox: > http://dump.chrismeller.com/habari_buttons-firefox.png > > We don't support IE in the admin, but they would simply appear as normal > square buttons with the gradient and border: > http://dump.chrismeller.com/habari_buttons-ie7.png > > If we don't support IE, how can we complain that it doesn't look good in > Chrome? It's Chrome's fault there's no antialiasing - there's nothing we can > do until they add that feature. It's hardly the only thing screwed up in > Chrome, and I happen to think it still looks decent: > http://dump.chrismeller.com/habari_buttons-chrome.png > > > - State transitions are far too subtle with the current styling. The >> hover can barely be made out, for example. > > > This is obviously going to vary with the quality of your monitor and its > contrast settings (it was clear enough to me when designing it), but the > current styling was not set in stone, it was just a quick change that > everyone on IRC at the time liked. > > > - The usability is worse than unstyled buttons, because people know >> their OS widgets and know how they look like and what behavior to expect >> from them. > > > There is something to be said for this point, but I think people are hiding > behind it blindly for the lack of a better reason and because they haven't > taken the time to actually think through the alternative. > > I also don't think changing the button style significantly impacts the > user's ability to recognize the function of the object. In fact, I think the > ability to more finely hone the message of each button is improved. Colors > speak volumes - having the 'delete' button include red somehow would greatly > improve the understanding of its function, as red and green are basic colors > users have already associated with certain actions and consequences. Using > non-OS-standard styles allows us the ability to customize the interface in > ways which harness user understanding outside the browser, and allows us to > do it on any platform. > > Can you honestly tell me that this (although hastily done and a bit over > the top) doesn't convey more information about the action being performed > than the standard button? > http://dump.chrismeller.com/habari_buttons-reddelete.png > > You may like the buttons on OS X (I don't), but there are users of other > platforms out there. There are also those of us who regularly switch between > platforms and would appreciate a little aesthetic unity. > > I would also like to point out that the dropbutton concept in no way > integrates with the OS. It's a button and a select drop-down merged > together, yet it shares no elements of either. How is that particularly > intuitive to the user? While working on the new buttons on IRC, we also > discussed changing the look of drop-buttons so they more properly emulate > their default counterparts to convey a more clear purpose of their intent > and to match the newly styled buttons. Again, unifying the entire design so > we don't have big ugly black dropboxes all over the page. Can you really > tell me that it wouldn't look better using the button style, something like > this: http://dump.chrismeller.com/habari_buttons-dropbox.png > > Even the almighty Apple has done the exact same thing with me.com [1] and > the Apple Store [2] - they replaced not only the button, but also the > checkbox with a custom control. Since they designed the original OS X > widgets and are considered *the* UI company, surely there's something to be > said for the fact that they chose not to use them on their own sites. In > fact, I would say that Apple's use trumps any 3rd party UI "assessments" > (like the one Khaled links to). > > [1]: http://dump.chrismeller.com/dc7ea1853be03c3bbc450cd80e11d250.png > [2]: http://dump.chrismeller.com/47daa54fd7a9196d584e049e8695e7c4.png > > > - Lastly, I don't think they fit in with the rest of the admin >> (different border radius, different color, different gradient, etc.) > > > How can you say they don't fit the rest of the admin? The gradient colors > are nearly identical to the page and box background colors. The border is > nearly identical to the shade of gray we use for text all over the place. > > The different border radius is because they're different elements. Half the > argument here is that they're buttons and shouldn't look like everything > else... well, should they or shouldn't they? > > By making them slightly more subtle, we also prevent things like this > abomination from looking so horrible: > > Buttons: http://dump.chrismeller.com/habari_buttons-comments.png > No Buttons: http://dump.chrismeller.com/habari_buttons-windows.png and > http://dump.chrismeller.com/habari_buttons-osx.png > > > >> The only pro argument I could see: >> >> - Make Habari look consistent across platforms. Doesn't resonate with me >> because I don't think Habari should try to appear as a separate >> platform. For me, Habari is an app. >> > > I disagree. I regularly use Habari on both OS X and Windows, and would > appreciate it looking the same on both platforms. Currently all our other > input elements are styled heavily, buttons are the only ones left untouched. > Why are they different? If you can visually indicate to the user that this > modified text box is a text box and they have no problem comprehending that, > why is it different for buttons? It's not... > > > I'd like everyone to re-vote after having read my arguments. Also, please > take a minute or two to explain why. "It's ugly" and "It should never be > done" aren't arguments that help to change my opinion, they just override > it. > > > > -- Ali B / dmondark http://www.awhitebox.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/habari-dev -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
