I was unfair, but no more so than Owen was for implying my efforts were a waste of time. I realize that things get misconstrued so I tried to edit my response to be as deliberated as so many others here do. Still, my little feelings were hurt and I very much doubt he wanted to hear any criticism either, however constructive I felt it might be.
I am often wrong, so my idea of a forum may well crash and burn. Still, I can't help feeling that, despite all your efforts, things could be better for the image of Habari. I didn't say marketing because that implies hype, spin and press releases which would only mirror the launch. The reason I like the forum concept at this point, rather than trying to fix what exists, is that I wouldn't yet have a clue what to fix since I haven't begun to grasp the intricacies that you all take for granted. Researching it from an idiot's perspective lets me sort it out, move it around, expand on concepts, and gather great resources that exist away from the main site. It's just the way I process my research projects and I can assure you I will produce far more than I would otherwise. I write books but never blog. Most of what I've gathered so far isn't even about the technical side of things. It's about the history, goals, features, examples and outside praise for things Habari and the amazing people who make it all possible. I want people to start using it because they feel an emotional connection, not a technical one. Same thing for the devs who produce themes and plugins. There needs to be a way to keep them motivated enough to update their work. People develop impressions of a product or culture not from a technical Wiki but from a good story and pretty pictures. Habari has a great story but the info was scattered and would never likely be used by the core who prefer to avoid the limelight, as in "the product speaks for itself". Clearly it doesn't, unless you speak code. That might even be the best market. Habari: The CMS used only by open source web developers. I see that your impression of me is based only on my perceived negativity and desire to write a story unimpeded, so I deserve no better for now. I hope that can be altered with time and positive results. On Friday, January 18, 2013 3:42:17 AM UTC-5, Neil Darlow wrote: > > Hi Les, > > On Thursday 17 January 2013 20:13:54 Les Henderson wrote: > > Wow. Even though I truly respect your opinions, which are based on years > of > > experience dealing with something I know next to nothing about, they do > > seem a tad something. I'm just not sure if the right word is possessive, > > protective, or protagonistic. If anyone deserves a fan club it's the > rather > > compact Habari PMC. > > That's a bit unfair. In my dealings with the Habari development community > I've > not seen any evidence of eliteism. They have always answered my questions > with > courtesy and speed. > > > I do find it strange that you seem to have some strange aversion to a > > positive marketing approach simply because I won't become part of the > > official community. I just prefer avoiding the commitment is all. > > Why not commit to helping the project? You won't be asked to commit to a > fixed > number of hours per week. I am sure all contributions, whether sporadic or > regular, that benefit the Habari community will be welcomed. We all have > lives > outside our pet-projects. > > > Sadly, from reading scores of past posts, it looks like many people have > > tried to help market the product but they must have come up against the > > same brick wall. After three years of relative obscurity, following a > two > > year surge, surely it's time to try again? What's the worst that could > > happen by having Habari mentioned a few hundred more times? > > I am sure, for many people, Habari works out-of-the-box with little extra > need > of additions. I am always prepared to dig into the Habari or plugin code > to > get a feel for what it does in a particular situation. I have had to do > this > with other projects like ProcessWire. A little hands-on learning isn't a > bad > thing if you are going to use a product for the long term. > > > If it's taken me a hundred hours to compile what I have so far, not > using > > anything much yet from the users-group, just so that I can even start to > > grasp how good Habari can be, do you honestly expect the rest of the > world > > to do the same? > > The time you have invested is praiseworthy but, like others, I really > think > that putting that effort into the official Habari resources would have > given more > value to the Habari community and yourself without incurring hosting > expense. > > > I'd like to think that I will soon rank much higher than the disjointed, > > dated and disorganized posts referencing broken links about non-current > > info and features that no longer exist. You core guys are like race car > > drivers forced to offer training to elderly people who've had their > > licenses revoked. Clearly you seem to resent it and are impatient, > wanting > > to turn people away for even asking to look under the hood. > > The need I see here is for someone to work closely with the developers to > resolve the outdated documentation and broken links. Updating that > information > elsewhere doesn't do anything for the existing stuff. If the developers > don't > have time or resources to do this then you could help by doing it for them > where it is needed. > > > You peaked with geeks when you first launched and now, from afar at > least, > > the boat appears listless and adrift. I certainly don't want to be the > > captain. I just want to blow some wind. > > I think that Habari has fallen foul of the hype that existed, initially, > that > it had the potential to be a WordPress killer. That might very well be the > case but it needs effort in many areas to achieve it. Just because Habari > isn't > a major news-grabber doesn't mean it's not achieving it's intended purpose > of > being a solid, modern, blogging solution. > > > Jeepers, here you have me dumping on your great works when all I was > trying > > to do was promote it out of the doldrums it seems to be mired in. Since > > it's my time to waste, and I can clearly not expect or deserve any > > appreciation at this point in time, I'll simply leave you to your work > and > > we'll revisit the issue down the road. > > Seriously, Les, I think your efforts would be better spent on improving > Habari > resources rather than marketing. There's an old adage that says "Good > products > sell themselves" and the developers have a good handle on improving the > features and efficiency of Harbari itself, they just need assistance in > documenting it. Why not help them, officially? > > > Right or wrong, I'm truly on your side. After all, I've now read just > about > > everything you've written about your quest so I know where your heart > is. > > Since it's now all compiled for easier reading, my viewers will too. > > You have all the enthusiasm that a project needs of its contributors. I > really > think that you should consider applying your efforts to improving Habari > as a > part of the core team. I am sure you won't have to sell your soul to do > that! > > Regards, > Neil Darlow > -- To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/habari-users
