I fully agree with Arden Forrey's remarks. It was a shame that the "Millenium Standard" did not happen. It took us a long march through the institutions to make Mumps an ISO-Standard.
To revive MDC as official body can be done either using the old ANSI-affiliation or through a ISO WG (that would be the "normal" way). Both ways reuire international participation. I suppose, MUG Germany would be willing to participate (I cannot ask my successor Wolfgang Kirsten, he is hospitalized right now). Also I guess, Frans Witte (Netherlands) could be reactivated. Ion Diamond in GB? I do not know whether he is still active in the field. But there is a new commercial Mumps available in GB. Finland? I do not know the actual state of M-use there. What about South America? Could George Timson trigger participation? I once visited M-using hospitals in Sao Paulo and might be able to find out. We should get NEW people. I did not follow the ISO-story. Is the standard sustained? I have been asked in Germany and suggested to vote yes, but I did never ask for the results. Does anybody know? Wolfgang Giere "A. Forrey" wrote: > I definitely support Joseph's statement, as Rick and other hard hats > already know. I felt dissolution of both the MTA and the MDC were wrong > following the 1999 meeting and the fact that the "Millenium Standard" was > ready for ballot at that last meeting but never happened was a setback. It > can be reversed. A host organization for the MDC and an organizational > framework for an ANSI-accredited SDO must be written. The NE MUG remains a > viable organization and encompass all the market, not just healthcare or > VistA and this will be important. WV must actively promote getting this > done. Bashkar can offer inputs regarding other market segments and an > initial listing of Suppliers of of M-based products and services must be > compiled quickly to aid in this effort. The HH website can be a mechanmism > of dissemination. Another question of great importance has to do with > building the education infrastructure to which Dick Walters insights will > be important. We must stimulate the creation of programs which feature M > and how it is integrated into the Life Cycle Principles for system design > and implementation as well as how to utilize its unique features to > advantage. This subject was pushed at the Sept 1998 MDC meeting in Seattle > but had not taken off by the 1999 San Diego meeting; the resurrecred MDC > must be structured to address this education issue in this broad context > as it will drive a stake in the heart of the "MUMPS is OLD" saw being used > to rid the market of a powerful component. We must draw on the M vendor > list to be created. We here at UW will contribute to rebuilding the M > Education capabilities. > > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: > > > It is definitely time to do it....it is not constructive to see this kind of > > press as the VA "hates" MUMPS.... rather it should be seen as "we need help" > > to a) address the deficiencies b) we do not be dependent on a single vendor > > c) we need company. Ironically, a new MDC that leverages an open source > > "business" model, can I believe, without any doubt do what the Red Sox just > > did. More importantly the rest of the planet will need an MDC etc. because > > the will need the same things the VA needs whether or not the VA sticks with > > MUMPS..... > > > > I am not a MUMPSTer...so I say this from a practical strategic > > perspective..... it is indeed a time for revival...a pragmatic one...that > > focuses on improving and leveraging what is good about M and dispelling the > > mythology and misinformation that has bred in the absence of an MDC/MUG. > > With > > so many vendors still using M, eg. Epic, Meditech, Cerner, McKesson surely > > there is both commercial and user interest. Epic for example, has become one > > of the best systems in the industry....in part it's its management...but one > > cannot ignore its underlying architecture. BTW is there anywhere a > > commercial > > system that uses the full architecture proposed for 5 years from now?? > > > > joseph > > > > Nancy E. Anthracite wrote: > >> This is the article I posted days ago that many of you could not read and > >> that I said I would try to get for you, so here it is and this was the > >> original URL. The original thread was Joseph Conn's interview with Dr. > >> Kolodner. > >> > >> http://www.modernphysician.com/news.cms?newsId=2817 > >> > >> Notice how the lack of a Mumps Users Group and as a corollary, I'm sure, > >> the MDC, is the backbone of his argument that VistA needs to be moved to a > >> SQL database. The MDC desperately needs to be revived. > >> > >> I found this URL interesting last night. This is a company I was not aware > >> of. If their product is good, it would seem to satisfy the VA's burning > >> desire to extract and analyze their data in an SQL database as they do not > >> seem to want to do that straight out of a Mumps database, probably because > >> so many people are trained in making SQL queries but not in how to extract > >> data from VistA. I actually thought that Cache had this capability in it > >> already, but I may be mistaken. > >> I suspect that this company owes its viability to already being used by the > >> VA, but I don't know about that. In fact, maybe some of the folks in the > >> company are on this mailing list or come to WV meetings, I don't know. One > >> would think they are as disappointed as we are that the database is being > >> moved by the VA. > >> > >> http://mde.srs-inc.com/aboutmde.html > >> It is interesting that he mentioned that it will be inexpensive to move the > >> data from one SQL database to another, but the cost of the move from mumps > >> to the SQL database will certainly not be. > >> I wonder what the cost of performing the needed maintenance to a the mumps > >> database would be as compared to the cost of this move. > >> > >> > >> On Wednesday 24 November 2004 01:08 am, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: > >> > >>> Could you please provide the URL for this so it is adequately > >>> referenced....thanks!!! > >>> > >>> Joseph > >>> > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>> > >>>> Here it is Nancy. > >>>> > >>>> Tom Henderson > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> FOIA version of Vista remains available despite recent changes > >>>> /*By Joseph Conn <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> / *November 17, 2004/ > >>>> // > >>>> Despite plans to overhaul its Vista clinical system, the Veterans > >>>> Health Administration will continue to offer copies of its > >>>> multimillion-dollar software to private-sector users for a nominal fee > >>>> under the Freedom of Information Act, according to the Department of > >>>> Veterans Affairs' top physician informaticist. > >>>> > >>>> "We have the full support of the VHA leadership to continue to keep this > >>>> in the public domain," said Robert Kolodner, M.D., acting chief health > >>>> informatics officer at the VHA and deputy chief information officer for > >>>> health at the VA. > >>>> > >>>> On Nov. 8, the VA published a request for vendors to submit statements > >>>> of their capability to provide the VA with what it called "rehosting > >>>> support." It also called for vendors to provide routine service and > >>>> support for the VA's Vista healthcare information technology system. > >>>> > >>>> Kolodner said the move also would have no immediate impact on an effort > >>>> initiated by the VA and the CMS to develop a version of Vista for the > >>>> physician office practice. That software should be ready by summer 2005, > >>>> according to the CMS. > >>>> > >>>> One goal of the proposed five-year contract is to move the VA's > >>>> healthcare IT system from the programming language and database on which > >>>> it was first written in the late 1970s and where it remains today: from > >>>> MUMPS, or the Massachusetts General Hospital Utility Multi-Programming > >>>> System (now known as M), to, as much as possible, open-source versions > >>>> of the Java programming language and possibly at least two relational > >>>> database systems, Kolodner said. > >>>> > >>>> Kolodner said the VA initially plans to run a national database on > >>>> software from Oracle Corp. and regional databases on the relational > >>>> database portion of Cache, a program by InterSystems Corp., which > >>>> incorporates a proprietary version of M now used by the VA. > >>>> > >>>> "But it could be on (Microsoft's) Sequel Server or SQL or any other > >>>> database," Kolodner said, adding the VA would incur a "relatively small > >>>> cost" to convert Vista from one database to another if need be. > >>>> > >>>> "We've had a history of staying vendor-independent," he said. > >>>> > >>>> Within the VA, M has developed almost a religious following among > >>>> programmers for its speed, dependability, flexibility and scalability, > >>>> and several of today's leading commercial healthcare IT systems have M > >>>> at their core. But Kolodner said it is time to switch. > >>>> > >>>> "MUMPS has served us very well over the last 20 years," he said. "We > >>>> have done a lot with it, and it has supported our needs." > >>>> > >>>> However, many M vendors have been bought by InterSystems and a > >>>> once-thriving MUMPS user group has gone defunct. Today, there are fewer > >>>> programmers skilled in M than in a more modern language, such as Java. > >>>> > >>>> "There are times when it is much too expensive and takes much too long > >>>> to make changes and support the needs that we have," he said. "Java is > >>>> taught in more schools than MUMPS is." > >>>> > >>>> In addition, Java and relational databases are better suited together, > >>>> he said. > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > >>> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > >>> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. 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