On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 8:17 AM, Edward Lilley <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't consider myself to have much of a head for mathematics, but
> having read up on the relevant bits, I decided that -- given that it was
> simple enough for me to understand -- there was no reason not to at
> least write down the relevant formalisation (and formalising things
> mathematically is The Haskell Way, right? :-)).

True, and I should probably also make the effort to learn some basic
vocabulary about sets and groups, since those seem to come up a lot in
programming.

> The main thrust is that, quite apart from tuning systems being
> representable as groups with one generator (equal temperaments) or two
> generators (meantone temperaments) (or more generators), the *notation*
> of intervals in common musical practice defines a two-generator group
> regardless of the tuning system in use[2].

Indeed, and even in equal temperment, enharmonic spelling communicates
important information.

And even post-Baroque European music is mostly not equal tempered!  As
far as I can tell, only small ensembles involving a keyboard are.  And
electronic music, of course.

By "generator" you mean a starting pitch and a way to modify it to get
the next pitch?  I can see how equal temperment then only has one,
e.g. just add 100 cents repeatedly.  I don't know enough about
meantone to know how that would apply, but I expect it wouldn't work
for a just scale, unless you want to say there are 7 generators :)

> You're completely correct about what I have "in mind" -- I'm currently
> only really concerned with what I consider to be "essential" to the
> music theory -- pitches, intervals and durations. This represents a bit
> of early music-bias (and general arrogance) on my part, so sorry about
> that!

There's another tradeoff where the more opinionated a notation is, the
more powerful and concise it is within its area, though less general.
So it's entirely appropriate to choose an area and focus on it!

>> Also, it seems like you're focusing on scales with 7 diatonic steps?
>> The Name type with its A-G implies that it's hardcoded that way.
>
> That's correct. It always seems like a nice idea to say things like
> "this package is not limited to Western classical music, and, in fact
> only implements it as a special case" (most of the music-related
> packages on Hackage seem to make some variant on that statement), and I
> think such attempts are laudable, but I'm not currently claiming any
> such generality -- it's not like there's a shortage of Western classical
> music to play around with.

I doubt those packages actually *are*, I think they just say that :)

> That said, it might be nice to implement some scales from the Arabic or
> Indian traditions, to demonstrate some of the more exotic tuning systems
> in Tuning.hs (cf. TET17 and TET22). Also, I'm considering adding a
> hexachord-based pitch representation, to more accurately write down
> pre-1500 music.

Indian music is generally understood to be a just 7 tone system.
However, in practice you never hear a single tone in isolation unless
it's the 1 or 5, as they are all embellished with microtonal
variations.  So as far as I can tell, the concept of intonation
doesn't really apply.  For instruments with frets or sympathetic
strings, you'd probably have to go do a survey to see what people seem
to think "in tune" is, but I'd guess people wouldn't feel the need to
tune that precisely, or it would basically be 5 or 7-limit just.

Arabic and Turkish music I believe does have a concept of intonation
and a scale with a set number of degrees.  Though as usual this is
probably just a theoretical approximation of a pre-existing system and
you'd need to know more about the music to know how useful it is
outside of a textbook.

With regard to pre-1500 European music (church I assume, nothing else
seems to be written down), I'd be quite interested in seeing what your
experimentation yields, I think there's probably a lot of poorly
explored territory in there.  You might also try to get some nicer
sounding samples or csound patches, having a nice timbre is at least
as important as having the proper intonation.

> Hope that answers some of your questions! Sorry for the interminable
> essay.

Not at all, thank you for the interesting discussion.

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