Or consider using a weight on your table in the lighter subjects

Sent from a mobile device, please excuse my brevity/misspellings. 

On Jul 14, 2013, at 10:07 PM, "Glasser, Matthew" <[email protected]> 
wrote:

> I believe that comes from table vibration.  You might consider increasing
> the TR and it may be reduced.
> 
> Matt.
> 
> On 7/14/13 10:50 AM, "Andreas Bartsch" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I have put my 1.8mm isotropic Trio diffusion protocol for download here:
>> Archiv.zip <http://www.logicalenemy.net/data/wue/hcp/Archiv.zip>
>> 
>> 
>> This is without GRAPPA but using the latest MB-GRAPPA reco refinements
>> (cf. Steen Moeller's ISMRM poster this year) you may be able to use GRAPPA
>> at an acceleration of 2, preferably with 72 reference lines, and cut down
>> the TE to something like 73ms.
>> I had observed a predominance of V1 RL/LR orientations (a "reddish
>> bleeding" on the ColFA or dtifit V1/FA overlays) when using GRAPPA on our
>> system. That does not seem to be completely resolved even though it has
>> improved. It does not seem to affect probabilistic tractography with Xing
>> fibers but it is the reason why I am still staying away from GRAPPA.
>> 
>> Feedback and improvements are welcome, as is a notice and acknowledgement
>> if you should use this for your studies.
>> Cheers,
>> Andreas
>> 
>> 
>> Am 10.07.13 19:00 schrieb "[email protected]" unter
>> <[email protected]>:
>> 
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>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>>  1. Re: HCP-Users Digest, Vol 8, Issue 6 (Rei?-Zimmermann)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 17:25:33 +0000
>>> From: Rei?-Zimmermann, Martin
>>>     <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: Re: [HCP-Users] HCP-Users Digest, Vol 8, Issue 6
>>> To: Andreas Bartsch <[email protected]>,
>>>     "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>     <41e41d2635df1d4fb3430e087ba6f49328738...@s050003233.medizin.uni-leipzig
>>> .
>>> de>
>>> 
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> 
>>> Great news! Thank you very much Andreas.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Martin
>>> ________________________________________
>>> Von: Andreas Bartsch [[email protected]]
>>> Gesendet: Montag, 8. Juli 2013 22:16
>>> An: [email protected]
>>> Betreff: Re: [HCP-Users] HCP-Users Digest, Vol 8, Issue 6
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I can share a 1.8 mm isotropic mb-diffusion EPI from a 'standard' Trio.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andreas Bartsch
>>> 
>>> Am 08.07.13 19:00 schrieb "[email protected]" unter
>>> <[email protected]>:
>>> 
>>>> Send HCP-Users mailing list submissions to
>>>>      [email protected]
>>>> 
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>      [email protected]
>>>> 
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>      [email protected]
>>>> 
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of HCP-Users digest..."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>> 
>>>>  1. Re: HCP-dMRI gradient table on a TRIO - any experience?
>>>>     (Harms, Michael)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 14:44:26 +0000
>>>> From: "Harms, Michael" <[email protected]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [HCP-Users] HCP-dMRI gradient table on a TRIO - any
>>>>      experience?
>>>> To: Rei?-Zimmermann, Martin
>>>>      <[email protected]>, "Xu, Junqian"
>>>>      <[email protected]>
>>>> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>>>> Message-ID: <ce003573.1b7fe%[email protected]>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Martin and Satra,
>>>> The HCP itself has not extensively evaluated a 1.5 mm multiband DWI
>>>> acquisition on the Trio platform, so we don't have anything concrete to
>>>> share at this time.  Perhaps we should rephrase that sentence in the
>>>> Appendix I release guide, but it was included primarily to encourage
>>>> individuals on other platforms to pilot  beyond the "standard" 2 mm
>>>> resolution.
>>>> 
>>>> I'd encourage you to start by piloting ~1.8 mm isotropic on Trio/Verio
>>>> scanners with a multiband factor of 3-4.
>>>> 
>>>> cheers,
>>>> -MH
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Harms, Ph.D.
>>>> 
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Conte Center for the Neuroscience of Mental Disorders
>>>> Washington University School of Medicine
>>>> Department of Psychiatry, Box 8134
>>>> 660 South Euclid Ave.           Tel: 314-747-6173
>>>> St. Louis, MO  63110                    Email: [email protected]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 7/7/13 10:46 AM, "Rei?-Zimmermann, Martin"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello Gordon,
>>>>> 
>>>>> thank you very much for your answers. Due to our resolution limited to
>>>>> 2
>>>>> mm isotropic we have a substantial lower TR (3270 vs. HCP 5520 ms) and
>>>>> a
>>>>> TE of 110.4 ms (HCP 89.50 ms). I wasn't sure if it is the one gradient
>>>>> direction that needs to be changed (since it always stopped at the same
>>>>> point) or something else (in this case using a longer TR/TE).
>>>>> Thanks to your answer, I will now gradually increase TR in a
>>>>> trial-and-error-fashion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Any chance, the mentioned 1.5mm-DTI-TRIO-sequence can be posted here?
>>>>> (I
>>>>> guess, there are a couple more TRIO users in the mailing list)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Martin
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> Von: Xu, Junqian [[email protected]]
>>>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juli 2013 16:57
>>>>> An: Rei?-Zimmermann, Martin
>>>>> Cc: [email protected]
>>>>> Betreff: Re: [HCP-Users] HCP-dMRI gradient table on a TRIO - any
>>>>> experience?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Martin,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sorry that I misunderstood your problem. However It is still gradient
>>>>> duty cycle related. The Siemens VB software version doesn't estimate
>>>>> gradient heating as accurately/conservatively as the Siemens VD
>>>>> software
>>>>> version. Hence the minimum TE/TR allowed by the sequence can still trip
>>>>> the gradient duty cycle limit in real time, causing scan crash.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The solution is to relax the TE/TR little by little with try-and-error
>>>>> until you find a stable combination that passes your test.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gordon
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 5, 2013, at 9:12 PM, "Xu, Junqian" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Martin,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The culprit is the gradient power amplifier (GPA) duty cycle too high
>>>>>> on the Y axis (i.e. the consecutive high value of 0.992 and -0.975).
>>>>>> We
>>>>>> have encountered similar problem in HCP and have implemented a
>>>>>> solution
>>>>>> to solve the gradient duty cycle issue.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can find the solution to this problem in Sotiropoulos et al.
>>>>>> NeuroImage special issue
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23702418
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Section: Q-space sampling
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "However, even when realistic sequences of diffusion gradient
>>>>>> orientations were used (even with interleaved shells), the gradient
>>>>>> duty
>>>>>> cycle, due to accumulated heating, could still limit the achievable
>>>>>> minimal TR. The order of the diffusion gradient orientations in the
>>>>>> final HCP dMRI protocol was therefore optimised by swapping adjacent
>>>>>> orientations to reduce the auto-correlation (lag = 1) of absolute
>>>>>> gradient amplitude (~ < 0.5) for each physical gradient axis."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please let me know if this is clear enough for you to solve your
>>>>>> specific case.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Gordon
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 5, 2013, at 11:06 AM, "Rei?-Zimmermann, Martin"
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I tried implementing and converting the HCP dMRI-sequences for our
>>>>>>> TRIO. I followed the suggestions in the Appendix I and with minor
>>>>>>> modifications (2 mm isotropic) it works well with MB3 and the
>>>>>>> MDDW-gradient table (60 directions).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> However, when I use the HCP gradient table the measurement stops at
>>>>>>> reproducable stops within the sequence (see following) and always
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> the same error (hope I can translate that somehow from German into
>>>>>>> English):
>>>>>>> Error in gradient amplifier, GPA not ready. duty cycle is to high.
>>>>>>> Please check sequence parameters.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The sequences always stop at these points:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 95dir-dMRI: direction number 47 (-1.000 , -0.001 , -0.011)
>>>>>>> 96dir-dMRI: direction number 75 (-0.094 , 0.992 , -0.082)
>>>>>>> 97dir-dMRI: direction number 55 (-0.134 , -0.975 , 0.180)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The images before look great!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I took a look at the page of Emmanuel Caruyer - but if I create a
>>>>>>> gradient table of 90 dir (the HCP 96dir-table seems to have 6 b0 and
>>>>>>> the rest b1000-3000, the E.C.-table seems to encode b>0 values,
>>>>>>> right?)
>>>>>>> it is totally different from the HCP one.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I also read the note in the HCP gradient table that these gradients
>>>>>>> are customized for the Connectome-Scanner.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So my question is: Shall I just use one created on Emmanuel's page
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> can I (or better: someone else) change the one from HCP?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Appendix I also mentions that the dMRI-sequence has been
>>>>>>> successfully tested on a TRIO and Verio with 1.5 mm isotropic
>>>>>>> resolution (and b2000). Is it possible that you could post the
>>>>>>> protocol
>>>>>>> (including the gradient table).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thank you very much. Best regards,
>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Dr. med. Martin Reiss-Zimmermann
>>>>>>> Abteilung f?r Neuroradiologie
>>>>>>> Universit?tsklinikum Leipzig A?R
>>>>>>> Liebigstr. 20
>>>>>>> 04103 Leipzig
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mail: [email protected]
>>>>>>> Fon:  +49 - 341 - 97 17 585
>>>>>>> Fax:   +49 - 341 - 97 17 490
>>>>>>> Net:   http://www.neuroradiologie-leipzig.de
>>>>>>> 
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