I'm not Vlad, but another list member of Ukrainian heritage. Yes, its true, that the Ukrainian style lira was often carved out. This technique was (and still is, though to a lesser extent) common for just about all stringed instruments in Ukraine, many of which were made not by professional luthiers with specialized shops at their disposal but sometimes by the musicians themselves or by enterprising peasants whose tools and materials were limited. Some instruments being made today by members of the Kobzarsky Tsekh (traditional musician's guild http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobzars'kyj_Tsekh) using traditional methods also exhibit the carved construction (http://fire.prohosting.com/khaykhay/photographs.html). I have not noticed a marked difference in sound between carved out, or piece built versions. Obviously, the lira does sound different than a vielle, and that is partly due to the generally small size among many other factors. Perhaps it is also true that the small body lends itself more easily to "trough carving". I think if it's skillfully done, the body can be carved to quite thin tolerances and besides, I wonder how much the back resonates when damped by the lap of the player. Orest
-- Arle Lommel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Chris, There is no reason you can't use a "trough-carved" body like you propose. One of the types of Ukrainian lira is made in this manner and it seems to work fine (although I don't know how the sound would compare since it's been over a year since I heard one in a recording). I have tried to find an image for you (I've seen a number in the past) but I can't find one at the moment. Instead I keep finding the other type which has sides made from separate pieces inserted into braces. Vlad, a list member who is of Ukrainian heritage and who also builds instruments, may know more, but his wife recently gave birth and I don't know how much he is paying attention to the list at the moment.By the way, the following image may give you some ideas:http://www.stefciu.com/stefciulira_files/image005.jpgI don't know the source of the image, but there are a number of HG forms on it that I don't recognize right away.-Arle On Feb 23, 2007, at 9:46 AM, Chris Nogy wrote:I have made several hollowed bodied instruments www.nogy.net, look at the rebec or the crwth or the citole or the lyre pages. But this instrument, the citole from the Cantigas, is one of the design starting points I am trying to explore, as well as King David's Crwth, the gittern from the British Museum, etc... These instruments were popular and common body shapes, I assume that it would not be out fo the question to build a gurdy with a shape similar to other instruments that were being built. I am just really curious to know if this method has any specific design characteristics that would make it unsuitable for a gurdy (a medieval gurdy, not a modern one). I have wood in sufficient dimension and am experienced in making a jointed body in his style as well. I know that if it had to be a jointed carved body, then it would have to be jointed in 3 sections so that the axle would have the full support fo the center. But for a smaller gurdy, which most of the medieval illustrations I have seen seem to imply, there are lots of species of hardwood that grow large enough and can be seasoned well enough to do this job. Chris
