I imagine that if you keep the bearings in use regularly, you will not have a problem. But if you allow the instrument to sit for a prolonged amount of time and then try to use it, you will see problems. Especially with a regular carbon steel or iron axle. I will probably be using either a regular silver-steel machining steel, or some form of stainless stock to turn my axle from. I know it is not period, but I don't think that the material the shaft was made of (other than how round it was made) would make a difference in the sound. But then again, if you don't get a perfect polish on the shaft, maybe the surface textrue of the shaft running in the bearing would give some small but important tonal difference.
Chris *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/10/2008 at 12:24 PM Reymen Marc wrote: >I 'dd like to see that iron axe.... >surely covered with oxidation.... >a layer of 0,1mm iron gives a0,3mm thick layer of rust.... >in dia: 0,1mm dia is 0,3mm more dia in rust..... >must act as epoxie.... >never hadany problems with lignum vitae.. >Marc >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Curtis Berak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:56 AM >Subject: Re: Re[4]: [HG] purpose of my new project. > > >> Some years ago I visited Thomas Norwood a luthier in >> Paris. He has made 48 superb Baroque hurdy gurdies up >> to now. Lignum Vitae was the material he chose for >> his bearings. He told me that after a few years went >> by he began to have trouble with them seizing up. he >> took back all the instuments made this way and changed >> them to something else. He then discontinued the use >> of Lignun Vitae as his bearing material. >> >> In my own experience I was restoring a 1749 Pierre >> Louvet. The knob was completely frozen. In trying to >> free it the axle and knob came out as one. It was as >> if the axle was epoxied to the knob. I was forced to >> chisel out this material which turned out to be an old >> Lignum Vitae bearing. >> >> Curtis Berak >> --- Chris Nogy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> The bearings are already prepared, Lignum Vitae >>> (from my oldest stock, 4 pieces that made up a shaft >>> bearing in an old steamship. This wood is pressure, >>> oil and steam 'seasoned', and is tough and stable. >>> I made a roofing hammer head out of a piece, had to >>> use metal milling equipment to make the hammer head, >>> and used it through a whole season of building a >>> large addition on my parents house. It was an >>> amazing hammer - it is now the property of a close >>> friend who still uses it to this day. >>> >>> I have some new Lignum Vitae on the shelves for >>> not-so-critical projects, but this one gets only the >>> very best. >>> >>> Was Lignum Vitae a European wood available at that >>> time? I thought it was indigneous to the West >>> Indes, so at that time (The late 1300s - early 1400s >>> in Europe it probably would not have been known. I >>> was thinking perhaps oil soaked linden or ash, as >>> both were strong and common woods of the time, might >>> have been used as bearings. I will use Lignum Vitae >>> because it maintains the spirit of the build, and I >>> think that it will start out similar to what might >>> have been used, only maintain that standard longer. >>> >>> Again, I am not going for the experience of being a >>> medieval owner of a medieval instrument. I want the >>> sound experience, and I want to be able to maintain >>> that experience over time without a lifetime of >>> mechanical maintenance. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >>> >>> On 2/7/2008 at 9:02 AM Reymen Marc wrote: >>> Doing this and wanting only the best, I think you >>> MUST use lignum vitae bearings...like in those >>> days... >>> marc >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Chris Nogy >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:45 PM >>> Subject: Re[2]: [HG] purpose of my new project. >>> >>> >>> I will likely build with a laminated wheel. I know >>> by firsthand experience what a solid maple wheel can >>> sound like when true, and what it can sound like >>> when off. And if it is rosined properly, the >>> end/edge grain difference is minimal. >>> >>> I fear I have been misunderstood - I fear people >>> think I am after the shabby, almost unlistenable >>> sound of the average early peasant gurdy. I don't >>> think that all medieval instruments had to sound >>> bad, in fact, I believe that just like today there >>> were all sorts of levels of instruments and >>> builders, and that there was a Nagy or a Hackmann >>> back then, doing exceptional work with the materials >>> and techniques available, and turning out >>> exceptional instruments limited only because the >>> technology of the time didn't include all the >>> adjunce techniques we now can use to further mold >>> the sound of a good instrument. >>> >>> My point in all this being that it was possible to >>> have a good, or even great, sounding instrument in >>> the middle ages, but we tend to spend a lot of time >>> learning how to make changes to an instruments tone >>> by materials choice, preparation (top carving and >>> using depth calipers to perfect every thickness, >>> nylon or roller bearings, things like that). The >>> technology available in period could produce a very >>> precise machine. But it would be limited to a >>> certain type of sound because builders had not yet >>> discovered all the adjunct technologies that we use >>> today to affect and fine tune the instruments. >>> These options simply were not available in earlier >>> times. >>> >>> Thus my question about curved vs flat top. There is >>> a significant difference in the sound between the >>> two. If the curved top would have been an option at >>> the time gurdies first were fitted with trompettes, >>> then a great builder, recognizing that this was a >>> way to improve the sound, would have fitted the >>> instrument with a curved soundboard. But if the >>> knowledge stopped at flat tops, then the builder >>> would have built the best flat topped instrument he >>> could, and the instrument would be limited by that >>> design characteristic, but could still have had a >>> nice, pleasant, workable and usable tone. It just >>> wouldn't have sounded like a curved top instrument. >>> >>> A person performing at a high state function for a >>> Crown would have spent time preparing his >>> instrument, greasing and truing and doing what >>> needed to be done to make it sound right. It might >>> not have stayed that way, but it would have been >>> able to sound good for at least a while. The 'best >>> that the instrument could sound' is the sound I am >>> wanting to recreate, and if using modern materials >>> and techniques can allow me to kind of 'lock in' >>> that sound, then I am not against doing so. But an >>> instrument that has the visual and accoustic >>> properties of the very best instrument of the period >>> at it's very best sound, that is what I am after. >>> (Oh, and it simply cannot be a Henry or a Bosch. It >>> just can't. Non-negotiable.) >>> >>> It is a rather stuck-up and elite pursuit, but I >>> want to have the very, very best medieval gurdy >>> around, and to be able to truly and accurately >>> demonstrate how good that instrument could sound in >>> a period atmosphere playing period music in a period >>> way. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >>> >>> On 2/6/2008 at 1:31 PM Roy Trotter wrote: >>> Confidential to Chris, this is not the worst (not >>> the Best either) of the old recordings. I don't own >>> any of the field recordings under discussion. I have >>> heard enough to lose interest.... The biggest >>> problem in the early recordings is lumpy wheels and >>> squeal. There was something on Youtube of a very >>> pretty girl playing fairly well, but the poor >>> machine was squealing like a pig in a fence. I >>> didn't run that one much, and can't find it now. >>> It sounds to me that Mr. Hogwood is not a HG player, >>> just somebody that was playing at the moment. (Is >>> this this was the same Sir Christopher Hogwood that >>> went on to fame as fortune as a conductor? ) The >>> notes are too passive. I may be spoilt to that >>> zesty, emphatic, precise playing of MM Imbert, >>> Bouffard, Chabenant, et al. >>> >>> I understand and appreciate your project, but unless >>> you really like scraping the wheel everytime the >>> humidity changes, you really want a twencen >>> laminated wheel. In some of the old instruments, >>> there is some evidence that the shaft was pounded >>> into the wheel... I hope into a pre-drilled hole.... >>> Players that have seen me build, comment on the >>> violence involved, but driving a shaft (pig-iron or >>> wood) into wheel like a nail is too much even for >>> me. I'm not trying to discourage you from something >>> you really want to do, but personally, I wouldn't >>> want an instrument that took all my playing time up >>> in maint. Carved body sounds interesting though. >>> >>> Doing a re-rosin during a performance is par for the >>> course. I never liked performing solo, My first >>> choice for a partner is a good storyteller that can >>> keep an audience enthralled during an emergency >>> re-cotton. I refuse to true an oval wheel on stage. >>> OK call me a snob... >>> >>> Roy >>> >>> >>> On Feb 5, 2008 11:46 PM, Kathy Hutchins >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> From: "Thomas A. Frank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> >>> >> and dogs and cats will run from it >>> > >>> > Is this a common occurrence when playing the HG? >>> > >>> > I ask in all seriousness, because I am quite >>> interested in getting an HG, >>> > but if it scares the cats, it won't be welcome in >>> the house. >>> >>> >>> We have a number of odd instruments in the house. >>> Besides my harp and >>> embryonic HG, I also have a circa 1870 Erard grand >>> piano. My husband plays >>> viola, accordion, tenor saxophone, Irish flute, and >>> smallpipes. My older >>> daughter is a cellist. My younger daughter is a >>> percussionist, and has in >>> addition to the standard school-issue snare drum, a >>> bodhran and a medieval >>> rope tension drum. We have a wooden bucket full of >>> pennywhistles, recorders, >>> and bamboo flutes. Out of all these instruments, the >>> only one that affects >>> the animals (two dogs, eight cats) is a Generation D >>> tinwhistle. I don't >>> know what it is about this particular whistle, but >>> the minute I start >>> >> === message truncated === >> >> >> >> >> >____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> >> >> >> -- >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1250 - Release Date: >> 29-1-2008 22:20 >>
