In Britain and France a great deal of the "Church" carvings I have seen have
been fairly old. All the instruments appear to be very stylised, I suspect that
the "Chinese whispers effect" had a lot to do with how all these different
instruments appear. A Clarsach player saw a piper playing a new bagpipe ( which
was really a Shawm), who told a sac but player about it ,who passed the
information on to a priest, who new someone was in town that could draw. The
tramp drew the picture, in exchange for a drink, and gave it to the priest. The
priest then went along to where his new abbey was being built and gave the
drawing to the stone mason and told him to incorporate it in the church. The
mason then gave the drawing to the apprentice, who turned the drawing upside
down! This is not total fiction, a very famous chapel near where I live was
added to like this over the many years of construction. See
http://www.rosslynchapel.org.uk/
In my eyes, and they are pretty old, Alden is right JON
Jocelyn Demuth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
While Alden's question to draw a guitar is an interesting, I don't
think it's an apt comparison. While very few of us on this list are graphic
artists, the guy who did this little miniature was. It looks like a 14th
century miniature done with a fair amount of lapiz, a very expensive paint.
No patron would have given a hack this expensive material to work with. I
suppose if you asked a bunch of American graphic artists to draw a stradlater
and they came up with something looking more like a cello, that would prove the
point admirably.
In my experience, which I think is the opposite of Alden's - most people
completely discount iconography. I would not suggest that iconography is
completely trustworthy just that rather than dismiss it because it isn't well
drawn, you have to look at many pictures to see what was drawn. I think what
is depicted is probably more accurate than how well it was depicted anyway.
In my medieval house experiment, I built windows with shutters. I noticed
in the pictures that the shutters were full of these strange, off center hinges
and nothing seemed to be straight. We didn't think much about this since
perpective is always problematic in medieval pictures. My husband tried to
build shutters that opened and closed in a more modern arc. It was impossible.
First of all since all the windows were small and in a small structure, to get
them to open, we had to add many hinges so that the window could open fully
without banging into a corner or a shelf. One shutter had more hinges than the
other which made them hang slightly crookedly. When we were done, we had
something that without trying looked very much like many of the medieval
pictures we had assumed were badly drawn.
Well, that's it for me - - happy gurdy hunting. I guess the good news is
that the guy in the picture is actually playing it rather than tuning and
recottoning so I guess the instrument made music, which is good.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Redpath
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [HG] Alden's rant on iconography, and a challenge
Colin, its a sort of Scottish Smallpipe made for Americans, with lots of knobs
and switches so you can change key quickly. JON
Colin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Stratocaster, is that the two door or four
door model?
Heard of it, wouldn't know one if I walked into it, let alone sketch one.
Colin Hill
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:29 AM
Subject: [HG] Alden's rant on iconography, and a challenge
>
> OK, you asked for it. ;-)
>
> Arle pretty much made my points for me already, so I'll just say this:
>
> In scholarly circles there is, perhaps, a dedication to the iconography
> that
> is unwarranted. The scholars go on and on about how the instrument shown
> in
> this source has this feature while this one doesn't showing that [insert
> your
> conclusion here]. This is all very well, but any time a conclusion is
> reached
> by serious study of the available drawings, paintings, engravings and
> sculptures, there should be a big disclaimer attached that the details of
> the
> source materials are suspect. We treat the iconography as if it's a
> photograph, because we're used to that level of truth in our world.
>
> So here's the challenge.
>
> Take out a pencil and blank paper. Draw a Fender Stratocaster electric
> guitar
> from memory.
>
> This is probably the most common instrument in the modern age, and even if
> you
> have absolutely no interest in rock music, you have probably seen the
> instrument literally hundreds of times. Don't worry if you "can't draw",
> and
> don't worry about showing perspective, or showing the player (though you
> can
> if you want to). Please DON'T cheat and look up Stratocaster images on
> the
> web to work from - just work from memory, because that's the point of the
> experiment. Scan your drawing and email me the scan, or send it to me via
> snailmail. I'll post them all anonymously over the next week or so.
>
> I was going to write what I expect to see, but I think I'll wait until the
> experiment is over. Since I'm asking you all to do this, I'll post a
> drawing
> also. Remember, to make this experiment work, I need YOUR drawing. No
> one
> will laugh at it, I promise.
>
> Alden
>
>
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