Let me know what y'all think - https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Huge-Project,-Small-Team
On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 7:37 AM Steve Ebersole <st...@hibernate.org> wrote: > I think we generally agree and understand each other here. > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:32 AM Imre Jonk via hibernate-dev < > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org> wrote: > >> >> This sounds a lot like how we do our version numbering as well. We try >> to be as backward-compatible as possible with new "y" (minor) and >> particularly the "z" (patch) releases, and try to put all the breaking >> changes in the "x" (major) releases. But in the end, given a large >> enough userbase, every (documented or undocumented) behavior of an API >> is being relied upon by someone, meaning that every change will break >> someone's workflow: https://xkcd.com/1172/ > > > Extrapolating what you say, we could never fix bugs because that buggy > behavior is "being relied upon by someone". I simply reject that. Fairly > sure that is not what you are saying, but this has been my point throughout > this conversation - words are important. Especially when you start talking > about expectations across a large number of people. > > > Depends on your definition of a "major version" ;) >> > > Yep, we are back to words being important :D > > I've already documented here what we consider a major version and its > implications; so you know my definition. > > > >> I meant that the Hibernate developers once in a while have to say to >> each other "Let's stop backporting fixes for release series x.y. People >> have had enough time to upgrade, now let's spend the time we save on >> things in our roadmap". >> > > Sure, but that's the thing. That is reactive, not proactive. Consider > the current 5.x -> 6.x situation again... What most people who ask this > stuff really want is, as soon as 6.0 is released, some date when 5.x will > become unsupported. But that is not something we are ever going to do - it > is impossible. > > > I now see the end-of-life warnings on the 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.4 and 5.5 >> release pages! Did you just add those? They are great! I think this >> gives a very clear signal to anyone still using those versions that >> they are now quite overdue on their updates. >> > > We discussed it and Yoann added that stuff. Thanks Yoann! > > > This has some overlap with human psychology. Someone should probably do >> a study on this. They could start with looking at what happened when >> Python 2's end-of-life date was finally announced... (you are probably >> well aware, but if not: everyone was dragging their feet until the >> announcement, which caused an enormous acceleration in the Python 3 >> transition). >> > > Not a Python developer[1], so not really familiar with that specifically; > but it is a common enough situation in software development. It also > probably meant that Python 3 was not as thoroughly tested as it could have > been prior to that accelerated migration. > > We are lucky in that we have a wonderful community, many of whom are very > helpful in the early shake out of these new releases. E.g., we had a lot > of testing and feedback of 6.0 well before it went Final. > > > > As you plan moving to 6.0, definitely check out the Jakarta >> > Transformer to help automate some of the tedious Java Persistence to >> > Jakarta Persistence move. >> >> Thanks! I'm passing this on to our developers. > > > They can also use the transformer config files Christian wrote for our own > migration efforts[2]. > > [1] I had to develop in Jython for almost a year once and REFUSE to ever > do anything Python related ever again ;) > [2] > https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/tree/ff9e9eebc9992c7bc9128e9bf33d4b51b2bee7a4/rules > > > _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list -- hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org To unsubscribe send an email to hibernate-dev-le...@lists.jboss.org %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
