Thank you and well said!!! Pam Marcum -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kim Donadio Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 12:47 PM To: Jerry Ricks Cc: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: Interviewing Histotechs...
Your comment about a monkey hits a nerve. There is a misconception I think in our field that yes any monkey off the street can do our job. Well they can't. It takes a good amount of knowledge to understand tissues, stains, chemical reactions and yes you will need to have some amount of hand eye coordination Skill . It's the monkey theory that has histotechs jumping up and down into these quick almost no hands on programs so they can get a good paying job with not much invested I'm afraid. Yes, I'm an expert at sticking my foot in my mouth. But if we as a group don't recognize why we are even having this debate about testing techs on the most basic of functions. Then I worry about the future of our profession And even healthcare because by god if you want monkeys , think monkeys , you will get monkeys! And darn it. I can't run and hide from this one can I lol Have a great week! Kim D Sent from my iPhone On Jan 31, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Jerry Ricks <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Toysha > > I think I'm just coming at it from "research mode" not clinical. Hands on > Histotechnology is a core part of our work, but just part, and it is focused > on animal models of cardiovascular disease. Depending on whether the > researcher is a postdoc or an undergrad they will have more or fewer general > lab skills including histo skills. I haven't met anyone yet who did not need > some training for embedding of brachiocephalic arteries of mice. > > I doubt I would do well in a clinical lab. I've become accustomed to docs > saying "wow that's beautiful can you teach me how to do that?" I gather in > the clinical field it's more like "a monkey can learn how to section." Maybe > a good monkey could but I doubt it could work up an IHC with a new antibody. > > > Jerry > > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:38:58 -0600 >> Subject: [Histonet] RE: Interviewing Histotechs... >> >> Jerry, >> I agree with you somewhat. I have met techs that misrepresented themselves >> and said that they could cut or embed, and knew how to operate the >> instruments, but could not produce quality work. You are right when you >> said that it is different for clinical vs. research. I have almost always >> worked clinical, and noticed that when working with research techs, they had >> a difficult time adjusting to clinical with the time frames and quality. >> When training new hires, depending on the position I am hiring for, I expect >> to train in the new workflow that they have learned, the new instrument they >> use, not the basic skills. I only expect to do that with a student. Fresh >> techs are expected to know how to get a section, not cut the plastic on the >> block, embed skin, and set up the h&e stainer. I should only have to go >> over and orient them on "our procedure" not teach the skill. >> I have worked various part-time jobs over the years and the first thing I >> ask is 'how many microns do you cut at here'? While 3-4 is the standard, >> some labs want everything at 3, or some at 4. I know how to cut, but like >> you it takes about 2 weeks to get used to the new instrument. That's fine, >> but I don't expect to have to teach the tech how to embed a skin or cut a >> kidney biopsy. Not for an experienced tech, unless they have never >> encountered it. That has to be made known during the interview. >> Yes, a cutting test is good, I have seen registered techs not make it past >> probation (90 days) because they could not cut. It would have saved the >> company time and MONEY if a test could have been given. Asking if they can >> cut a kidney biopsy, or embed a skin would be good as well. I can't go back >> and get more epithelia or ask for another pass through the kidney. >> >> >> >> Toysha N. Mayer, MBA, HT (ASCP) >> Instructor, Education Coordinator >> Program in Histotechnology >> School of Health Professions >> MD Anderson Cancer Center >> (713) 563-3481 >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:13:11 -0800 >> From: Jerry Ricks <[email protected]> >> Subject: [Histonet] Interviewing Histotechs... >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> I gather it is different in clinical labs than in research labs. In >> clinical labs there is an emphasis on quantity and speed. In research the >> emphasis is on doing good experiments. Our "patients" are almost always >> deceased or shortly about to be so there is no urgency of diagnosis factor. >> For us, "diagnosis" means making precise measurements else some scientists >> looking at an image and asking each other "what the?" >> >> Anyway I always assume that the person I am hiring is incompetent at >> histology and that they will need to be personally trained by me. Doesn't >> matter how much experience they have. And over 23 years that has turned out >> to be true. I've met exactly two people who didn't need much training. >> One was a former senior clinical lab manager. The other was a kid straight >> out of high school who happened to have a histology experience from high >> school and a decent histo portfolio. Yes, Mercer Island High School had a >> Histology program. >> >> No such thing as a tech who doesn't need to be trained and any tech trained >> by me will be up and running in a week or two. Why bother making them cut >> or stain anything during a darn interview. If they are smart and >> cooperative they will work out. >> >> If I ever go to a new lab with a new microtome, new protocols, I am pretty >> sure that I will be sort of incompetent for a week or two as well. >> >> Jerry Ricks >> Research Scientist >> University of Washington >> Department of Pathology >> >> >> >> [email protected] >>> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 13:12:09 -0500 >>> From: [email protected] >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: [Histonet] Re: interview.... >>> >>> Ray Koelling asked me: >>> >>>>> If the Samurai Pathologist is out there reading still; any idea >>>>> over your career, about how many glass slides have you viewed >>>>> under a microscope since the first? Your replies are always >>>>> top-notch, entertaining and informative. And hope with each new >>>>> job you don't have to show someone you can pass a test of which >>>>> slide shows normal liver and which slide shows cirrhotic liver in >>>>> your interview.<< >>> >>> I really have no idea how many slides. In a normal year I sign out >>> about 3,000 histology cases (remember I don't work full time) >>> averaging maybe 3 slides per case. >>> >>> Generally I've gotten jobs, both private clients and agency clients, >>> by recommendation. A number of years ago I was interviewed by a >>> four-pathologist hospital group who handed me a tray of 20 slides >>> with the necessary historical information, and was told that this >>> was a set the group had collected, including very straightforward >>> cases, cases with serious diagnostic pitfalls, and some cases they'd >>> never been able to make a diagnosis on. They tried to make it a test >>> of judgment rather than simple diagnostic skill. Told to take as >>> much time as I needed. I guess I passed - by coincidence, the entire >>> group chanced to break up very quickly, and an entirely different team took >>> over. >>> >>> Bob Richmond >>> Samurai Pathologist >>> Knoxville TN >>> >> ************************************ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Histonet mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet _______________________________________________ Histonet mailing list [email protected] http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. 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