@Michael : I changed the recv and send proxy to the sames as the marine npcs/player and I still get jittering. I also put a breakpoints in setnetworkorigin but I only found out that the client entity was overwriting the networkorigin with its local one. When I fixed that it started lagging even without any lag applied :(
Is it possible this whole problem be due to the network settings, like the cmdrate ? On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:55 AM, Michael Kramer <kra...@siosphere.com> wrote: > Have you setup breakpoints when it is setting the NetworkOrigin and > stepped through the code to find out why the server vectors are not > properly being set? > > ASW Might be using a default proxy that is causing the server vectors to > fail. That is where I'd start. > > > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Psy_Commando <psycomma...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> That's ok, I'm not expecting you to mess with it and fix it for me. I'm >> just a little frustrated right now, I've been messing with that problem for >> a long time, and it just seems like there's no solutions. So I just keep >> posting what I noticed in hope someone will recognize the problem. >> >> With that said, I already followed your advices, but even when I keep the >> bare minimum it still does it, every time I make a new test vehicle from >> scratch it does the same thing. And sometimes when exiting the vehicle the >> player does it too. >> >> Also I converted the vehicle back to orangebox, and it doesn't jitter on >> OB. So it must be something with the settings in ASW I guess. The server >> red cross shakes as much, but the view and the client entity is steady. ( >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXaLVWcZZDg&feature=youtu.be) >> >> >> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:21 AM, Tony "omega" Sergi >> <omegal...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Like i said in the first place.. it's only simulating properly on ONE >>> SIDE. which is why you're jittering. >>> I'm sorry I don't have time to actually play with it for you, but if you >>> listen to me that should get you on the right track. >>> the client side is running it's update code as it should, but the server >>> is not moving. so the client is "fighting" with the networked values. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Psy_Commando <psycomma...@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> *I meant in MP with predictions off >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:39 AM, Psy_Commando <psycomma...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm starting to think something on the server is messing with the >>>>> server-side position.. >>>>> >>>>> I ran the code in MP , and noticed that the clientside position was >>>>> steady, while the server-side pos was jittering. >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5w3dT7F6Q4&feature=youtu.be >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Psy_Commando >>>>> <psycomma...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Oh, and did I mention that the Hl2 buggy does the same thing ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Psy_Commando >>>>>> <psycomma...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Well I didn't change much from the ES code, I just cut the useful >>>>>>> parts, and tweaked them to fit the vehicle code I had. So yeah, its >>>>>>> pretty >>>>>>> much the same thing they did, but I'm guessing maybe it was written that >>>>>>> way to fix bug they had with the old prediction system, so that might >>>>>>> explain why it doesn't work in my case. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, since I want this to work in multiplayer, I have to have it >>>>>>> shared between client/server. If its only server side the controls will >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> laggy, and if its client side, it will be difficult to update the >>>>>>> position >>>>>>> on other clients. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I already did override the GetRenderOrigin method and copied the >>>>>>> smoothing code for the player in there. The problem is that it works >>>>>>> only >>>>>>> if there are prediction errors detected, and it detects none. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think you're not far with the truth by saying it might be a battle >>>>>>> between smoothing and simulation. One odd thing I noticed, is that when >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> run the game with maxplayer to 1, it runs only the server code, and the >>>>>>> jitter is still there... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Joel R. <joelru...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd start from scratch again. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quick question though... Are the ships in Eternal Silence updating >>>>>>>> the client entity position and angles as you are? Or is it server side >>>>>>>> only...? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On the flip side... I would create my own custom clientside >>>>>>>> entity. This way YOU control everything that happens to it, and not >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> server, because it appears like you are battling with the prediction >>>>>>>> system. If the origin/angles are off by a small tolerance (defined in >>>>>>>> c_baseentity.cpp), the client will teleport immediately to the server >>>>>>>> values. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, for the smoothing, I'd override the GetRenderOrigin and >>>>>>>> GetRenderAngles functions. This way you can display a smoothed >>>>>>>> origin/angles, but the simulation origin and angles are still simulated >>>>>>>> perfectly. This may be another reason why you are getting jitter, >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> of the battle between smoothing and simulation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Psy_Commando < >>>>>>>> psycomma...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Finally got the dedicated server to work with my local network ip. >>>>>>>>> It does the same thing as with net_fakelag on the listen server, it >>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>> look broken to me... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Still can't find what part of the code is causing the stuttering... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Ben Pye <bfh...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> With the dedicated server run with the argument "-ip 127.0.0.1" >>>>>>>>>> and then it should listen on localhost. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Psy_Commando < >>>>>>>>>> psycomma...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You're sure about that ? you're the first person to tell me that. >>>>>>>>>>> Besides, I can't connect to a dedicated server on the same >>>>>>>>>>> machine for some reasons, it just timeouts, whether I use 127.0.0.1 >>>>>>>>>>> or my >>>>>>>>>>> local network IP. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Stephen Swires < >>>>>>>>>>> stephen.swi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Like I said. Fake lag does not work properly on listen servers >>>>>>>>>>>> in ASW. You can check for any lag prediction issues by creating a >>>>>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>> dedicated server and connecting to it, then fake lag works as >>>>>>>>>>>> intended. >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012 8:32 PM, "Psy_Commando" <psycomma...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I made some progress changing the base class's base class to >>>>>>>>>>>>> CBaseAnimating instead of CPhysicsPropMultiplayer, it fixed some >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> stuttering, but once you add lag with net_fakelag it does it >>>>>>>>>>>>> again. I can't >>>>>>>>>>>>> find the reason why the origin differs between client and server >>>>>>>>>>>>> though, at >>>>>>>>>>>>> a glance it looks like the client is slightly ahead in time >>>>>>>>>>>>> compared to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> server. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If it can help, here's the base class : >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Client : >>>>>>>>>>>>> c_prop_sfr_vehicle.h - http://pastebin.com/tqUFNGQZ >>>>>>>>>>>>> c_prop_sfr_vehicle.cpp -http://pastebin.com/eCKcE3VX >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Server : >>>>>>>>>>>>> prop_sfr_vehicle.h - h <http://goog_156218657> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://pastebin.com/zPb3HbEh >>>>>>>>>>>>> prop_sfr_vehicle.cpp - http://pastebin.com/5y1m0S89 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Joel R. <joelru...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nick, if you knew anything about coding, you'd be able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make it work fairly quickly. He is not going to give you all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the SDK code >>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepped and ready. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 11:17 PM, Nick >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <xnicho...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The code you posted certainly is impressive. I just can't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find an easy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way to put it in a sdk and run it? How to spawn the vech? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Make an sdk with the files included that works, (with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working copy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the mod) and all of the code and send a link to valve.. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they will help out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A single file isn't at all helpful compared to a working >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> source code >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copy, and actual files and a 10 step list to "test" the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exact problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are experiencing. WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO RUN THE EXACT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CODE IF U >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WANT ANY HELP ON SUCH A MASSIVE "PROBLEM".. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 12:18 AM, Psy_Commando < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> psycomma...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > I already posted a link to the pastebin with the whole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code earlier ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://pastebin.com/eMcKh1YL ). And who at valve would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help ? Most of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > time I don't get answers when I mail devs. And what do you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean share what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the problem is with you, isn't it what I've been foing? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Is there any examples of simple moving predicted entities, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> besides the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > player ? I could really use an example... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > By the way, is what Stephen says accurate ? Is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> net_fakelag command not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > working on listen servers ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Nick < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> xnicho...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> i think you should give us a basic code, and send it to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> valve... only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> valve can help you. Usually valve is quite nice, and I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wouldn't mind helping you out, as long as you can share >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> problem is with the rest of us..... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Psy_Commando < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> psycomma...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > Alright, what else could be causing jittering ? There >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is so little going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > in that entity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Tony "omega" Sergi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > <omegal...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> As I said. looking at your prediction dump, it's not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> predicting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> properly. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Either they're not updating at the same rate, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're not running >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> same code producing the same results. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> see your screenshot: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13343993/abox0003.jpg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> notice in red, velocity is 0 0 0 that means >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> disabling VPhysicsUpdate is not the solution, as that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means you break >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> every vphysics object. Look at what it's doing, it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> position >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> after vphysics simulates and updating the entity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> so unless you're trying to make a purely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> client-authoritive ship, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> can't disable that without adding code to update the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position from the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> client. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Stephen Swires >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> <stephen.swi...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> It maybe worth mentioning that net_fakelag is broken >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on listen servers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> Alien Swarm. It works on dedicated, however >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 10:05 PM, Psy_Commando < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> psycomma...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> I found what was causing the stuttering with 0 ping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> singleplayer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> I disabled this code in cbaseentity_shared : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> // Purpose: My physics object has been updated, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> react or extract >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> data >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> void CBaseEntity::VPhysicsUpdate( IPhysicsObject >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *pPhysics ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> switch( GetMoveType() ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> case MOVETYPE_VPHYSICS: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> if ( GetMoveParent() ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> Log_Warning( LOG_DEVELOPER_VERBOSE, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Updating >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> physics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> on object in hierarchy %s!\n", GetClassname()); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> return; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> Vector origin; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> QAngle angles; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> pPhysics->GetPosition( &origin, &angles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> if ( !IsFinite( angles.x ) || >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> !IsFinite( angles.y ) || >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> !IsFinite( angles.x ) ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> Msg( "Infinite angles from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vphysics! (entity %s)\n", >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> GetDebugName() ); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> angles = vec3_angle; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> #ifndef CLIENT_DLL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> Vector prevOrigin = GetAbsOrigin(); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> #endif >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> for ( int i = 0; i < 3; ++i ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> angles[ i ] = AngleNormalize( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> angles[ i ] ); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> #ifndef CLIENT_DLL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> NetworkQuantize( origin, angles ); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> #endif >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> if ( origin.IsValid() ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> SetAbsOrigin( origin ); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> else >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> Msg( "Infinite origin from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vphysics! (entity %s)\n", >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> GetDebugName() ); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> SetAbsAngles( angles ); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> // Interactive debris converts back to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debris when it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> comes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> to rest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> if ( pPhysics->IsAsleep() && >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GetCollisionGroup() == >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> COLLISION_GROUP_INTERACTIVE_DEBRIS ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> SetCollisionGroup( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> COLLISION_GROUP_DEBRIS ); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> #ifndef CLIENT_DLL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> PhysicsTouchTriggers( &prevOrigin ); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PhysicsRelinkChildren(gpGlobals->frametime); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> #endif >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> break; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> However I still have stuttering when I set >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "net_fakelag" to anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> 0. And its gets worst the higher the FPS... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the list archives, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list archives, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list archives, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list archives, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -Tony >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >> > > > -- > *Michael Kramer, Software Engineer & SEO Expert* > http://www.siosphere.com | kra...@siosphere.com > *[c] 801-530-9454* > * > * > * > * > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 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