is there any way to fix net_fakelag? Everytime i use it things get glichy like i am on dialup..
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Ben Pye <bfh...@gmail.com> wrote: > Psy_commando, net_fakelag is broken on a listen server, the results are > unpredictable. > > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Nick <xnicho...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> .... i like the video it makes a much better picture of whats going >> wrong.. It seems something with the view angles are being dampened? >> >> Is it possible to check when the clientside viewangles and the >> serverside viewangles reach a certain trigger point 0 or 90 or 180 and >> do a breakpoint on both the client and the server to determine which >> exact parts are responsible for the slow serverside viewangle >> adjustments? >> >> On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Psy_Commando <psycomma...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > I think my explanation wasn't all that clear so here's a vid : >> > http://youtu.be/xHYjoYWU8Kg >> > >> > Basically, I made the fighter into a marine useable entity, in a clean >> > new >> > asw build, and the jittering is gone. Its obviously something this build >> > of >> > asw has that my main build has not. Most likely something in the marine >> > code. >> > >> > And Nick, stop begging for code I already told you the code would be >> > available publicly soon. >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk <mreeu...@yahoo.com> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> I told you where to find what his question is bout (don't even know if >> >> that part's source code is avail, not looked).... you wanted to take a >> >> look >> >> on it. >> >> >> >> I would have replied to him if I had done stuff similar or with the >> >> same >> >> in the past and . As I didn't, and have no time to start figuring out >> >> from >> >> the SDK to come to the same position as he is now, its no use. I >> >> replied to >> >> you, to get you to get smarter with the replies, for you keep asking >> >> for >> >> "full source code" which nobody is ever going to give unless you're in >> >> the >> >> same team/project and have that already. Either give a meaningful >> >> reply, or >> >> give some feedback in which you might search, so they can continue. He >> >> as >> >> programmer wont be scared to try some stuff out or find out if its >> >> correct. >> >> Just replying without thinking which achieves nothing is just a waste >> >> of >> >> time. >> >> >> >> Now, go back to that question, what was the question about? >> >> The discussion had lead to the question what the difference in handling >> >> was between a marine object and another moving object. The first thing >> >> that >> >> comes to mind for me is vertical/horizontal movement limiters/dampeners >> >> or >> >> speed ramping in w/e capacity it is coded in. For movements in liquid >> >> should >> >> be moving slower, speeding up/down slower and more limited in >> >> speed/direction etc. But I didn't answer that, for I (normally) am not >> >> kicking in a open door, for he would know that already. Question would >> >> be: >> >> isn't the same type of code active, but just the marine with smaller >> >> bounds >> >> which make it way less/not noticeable. >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Nick <xnicho...@gmail.com> >> >> To: Mart-Jan Reeuwijk <mreeu...@yahoo.com>; Discussion of Half-Life >> >> Programming <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> >> >> Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012, 13:44 >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Prediction Jerkiness with aircraft ? >> >> >> >> LOL! U talk nice words. It is easy to pop up out of nowhere and attack >> >> me( i was only person to even offer a reply). >> >> >> >> Mart-Jan Reeuwijk can you determine what the problem is without >> >> looking at his code?? >> >> >> >> I would ask you (Mart-Jan Reeuwijk) to help. Please! This is a serious >> >> issue and >> >> Psy_Commando is very eager to have this thing fixed! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 1:20 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk <mreeu...@yahoo.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> > stop asking for the code, esp when they use it from the VALVE >> >> > SDK's.... >> >> > which means it should already be on your hard disk. If its some they >> >> > wrote >> >> > themselves, they wouldn't ask what the difference is between marine >> >> > vehicle >> >> > code and other handling code within it. Instead they would link up >> >> > the >> >> > code >> >> > fragments that they wrote themselves. >> >> > >> >> > And this is bout the 4th time I see you asking for code or when they >> >> > quote >> >> > some code part asking for the full code where its totally irrelevant. >> >> > Seems >> >> > to me your not a dev, >> >> > >> >> > ________________________________ >> >> > From: Nick <xnicho...@gmail.com> >> >> > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming >> >> > <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> >> >> > Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012, 7:23 >> >> > >> >> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Prediction Jerkiness with aircraft ? >> >> > >> >> > Nobody can answer that if you don't share the code........ >> >> > >> >> > On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Psy_Commando <psycomma...@gmail.com> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> I tried to go with the marine/aircraft hybrid, but I decided to turn >> >> >> it >> >> >> into >> >> >> a marine driven vehicle before. And for some reasons, it works >> >> >> perfectly >> >> >> with no jitter ! >> >> >> What could be taking place in the marine code that would solve that >> >> >> jittering problem ? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thu, May 17, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Psy_Commando <psycomma...@gmail.com> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Urgh, forget what I said before, the problem is still there.. >> >> >>> However, >> >> >>> attaching a point_viewcontrol to to the vehicle reduce most of the >> >> >>> sluggishness >> >> >>> >> >> >>> And thanks for the answer Tony. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:37 AM, Tony "omega" Sergi >> >> >>> <omegal...@gmail.com> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> It's probably your movement type. >> >> >>>> If you're simulating with vphysics, then you've gotta use either >> >> >>>> applyvelocityimpulse or make a motion controller to apply the >> >> >>>> velocity >> >> >>>> properly. >> >> >>>> if you're not using movetype_vphysics then SetAbsVelocity should >> >> >>>> work >> >> >>>> with for example MOVETYPE_NOCLIP or MOVETYPE_FLY. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Psy_Commando >> >> >>>> <psycomma...@gmail.com> >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Alright, I think I fixed some of the problem. It still jitters >> >> >>>>> from >> >> >>>>> time >> >> >>>>> to time, but if you're lucky it won't do it at all.. Thanks for >> >> >>>>> the >> >> >>>>> help >> >> >>>>> this far guys. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> The problem was that the new origin and velocity weren't >> >> >>>>> matching. >> >> >>>>> on >> >> >>>>> the server itself during the same frame. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> But I still don't get it ... For some reasons if I set a velocity >> >> >>>>> and >> >> >>>>> then change the origin, the velocity will be applied 2x times to >> >> >>>>> the >> >> >>>>> entity, >> >> >>>>> making it move very fast : >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> SetAbsVelocity( Vel ); >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> SetAbsOrigin( GetAbsOrigin() + Vel ); >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> If I just set the velocity and not the origin, no movement at >> >> >>>>> all: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> SetAbsVelocity( Vel ); >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> If I calculate my new origin, by adding a velocity I computed to >> >> >>>>> the >> >> >>>>> current origin, the plane move a the right speed but the velocity >> >> >>>>> stays >> >> >>>>> at 0 >> >> >>>>> evidently, causing issue with any velocity based method ... >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> SetAbsOrigin( GetAbsOrigin() + Vel ); >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Does anybody knows what's applying the velocity, and why it >> >> >>>>> doesn't >> >> >>>>> apply it when the vehicle origin isn't changed ? >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 11:59 PM, Nick <xnicho...@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Hard to believe a free sdk such as ALIEN SWARM is going to get >> >> >>>>>> any >> >> >>>>>> complaints if the code is buggy to begin with..I feel sorry for >> >> >>>>>> commando.....because without him uploading aworking sdk with the >> >> >>>>>> problem, there is no way for someone to help him fix it. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk >> >> >>>>>> <mreeu...@yahoo.com> >> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> > Nick, ppl only need that piece of specific code sometimes, the >> >> >>>>>> > rest >> >> >>>>>> > can just >> >> >>>>>> > be discussed on points of interest. Which is what this mailing >> >> >>>>>> > list >> >> >>>>>> > is for. >> >> >>>>>> > Nobody will upload a full working codebox to test it out, as >> >> >>>>>> > the >> >> >>>>>> > snippet of >> >> >>>>>> > relevant code is the only part thats interesting to the case. >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > He's only looking for pointers and idea's. That way he finds >> >> >>>>>> > new >> >> >>>>>> > places to >> >> >>>>>> > explore in relation to the problem. >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > Uploading the complete edited kit where he has a problem with >> >> >>>>>> > solves >> >> >>>>>> > nothing. For 99.9999 % of all that is not relevant, not even >> >> >>>>>> > withstanding >> >> >>>>>> > that uploading a SDK is against terms most probably of the >> >> >>>>>> > SDK. >> >> >>>>>> > He >> >> >>>>>> > stated >> >> >>>>>> > that he used a certain SDK, and that his relevant snippet of >> >> >>>>>> > code >> >> >>>>>> > is >> >> >>>>>> > on a >> >> >>>>>> > certain place. Thats all thats needed really. >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > ________________________________ >> >> >>>>>> > From: Nick <xnicho...@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>> > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming >> >> >>>>>> > <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> >> >> >>>>>> > Sent: Thursday, 3 May 2012, 6:34 >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Prediction Jerkiness with aircraft ? >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > Everything would be solved if there was a working demo of the >> >> >>>>>> > problem. >> >> >>>>>> > If a random person can't download and reproduce the problem in >> >> >>>>>> > one >> >> >>>>>> > or >> >> >>>>>> > two clicks... then....................... not going to be >> >> >>>>>> > solved. >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > Please give us an exact copy of the sdk u are using. so there >> >> >>>>>> > is >> >> >>>>>> > no >> >> >>>>>> > doubt we can reproduce the problem exactly. that is the only >> >> >>>>>> > way >> >> >>>>>> > it >> >> >>>>>> > will be fixed, ever. >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 4:50 AM, Saul Rennison >> >> >>>>>> > <saul.renni...@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>> > wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> Don't worry Tony, he'll ignore you again, and ask for the >> >> >>>>>> >> next >> >> >>>>>> >> week >> >> >>>>>> >> what's >> >> >>>>>> >> still wrong. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >> On Wednesday, May 2, 2012, Tony "omega" Sergi wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> Like i said in the first place.. it's only simulating >> >> >>>>>> >>> properly >> >> >>>>>> >>> on >> >> >>>>>> >>> ONE >> >> >>>>>> >>> SIDE. which is why you're jittering. >> >> >>>>>> >>> I'm sorry I don't have time to actually play with it for >> >> >>>>>> >>> you, >> >> >>>>>> >>> but >> >> >>>>>> >>> if you >> >> >>>>>> >>> listen to me that should get you on the right track. >> >> >>>>>> >>> the client side is running it's update code as it should, >> >> >>>>>> >>> but >> >> >>>>>> >>> the >> >> >>>>>> >>> server >> >> >>>>>> >>> is not moving. so the client is "fighting" with the >> >> >>>>>> >>> networked >> >> >>>>>> >>> values. >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Psy_Commando >> >> >>>>>> >>> <psycomma...@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> *I meant in MP with predictions off >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:39 AM, Psy_Commando >> >> >>>>>> >>> <psycomma...@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> I'm starting to think something on the server is messing >> >> >>>>>> >>> with >> >> >>>>>> >>> the >> >> >>>>>> >>> server-side position.. >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> I ran the code in MP , and noticed that the clientside >> >> >>>>>> >>> position >> >> >>>>>> >>> was >> >> >>>>>> >>> steady, while the server-side pos was jittering. >> >> >>>>>> >>> Update on prediction jittering >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Psy_Commando >> >> >>>>>> >>> <psycomma...@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> Oh, and did I mention that the Hl2 buggy does the same thing >> >> >>>>>> >>> ? >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Psy_Commando >> >> >>>>>> >>> <psycomma...@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> Well I didn't change much from the ES code, I just cut the >> >> >>>>>> >>> useful >> >> >>>>>> >>> parts, >> >> >>>>>> >>> and tweaked them to fit the vehicle code I had. So yeah, its >> >> >>>>>> >>> pretty >> >> >>>>>> >>> much >> >> >>>>>> >>> the >> >> >>>>>> >>> same thing they did, but I'm guessing maybe it was written >> >> >>>>>> >>> that >> >> >>>>>> >>> way >> >> >>>>>> >>> to >> >> >>>>>> >>> fix >> >> >>>>>> >>> bug they had with the old prediction system, so that might >> >> >>>>>> >>> explain >> >> >>>>>> >>> why it >> >> >>>>>> >>> doesn't work in my case. >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> Also, since I want this to work in multiplayer, I have to >> >> >>>>>> >>> have >> >> >>>>>> >>> it >> >> >>>>>> >>> shared >> >> >>>>>> >>> between client/server. If its only server side the controls >> >> >>>>>> >>> will >> >> >>>>>> >>> be >> >> >>>>>> >>> laggy, >> >> >>>>>> >>> and if its client side, it will be difficult to update the >> >> >>>>>> >>> position >> >> >>>>>> >>> on >> >> >>>>>> >>> other >> >> >>>>>> >>> clients. >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> I already did override the GetRenderOrigin method and copied >> >> >>>>>> >>> the >> >> >>>>>> >>> smoothing >> >> >>>>>> >>> code for the player in there. The problem is that it works >> >> >>>>>> >>> only >> >> >>>>>> >>> if >> >> >>>>>> >>> there >> >> >>>>>> >>> are >> >> >>>>>> >>> prediction errors detected, and it detects none. >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> I think you're not far with the truth by saying it might be >> >> >>>>>> >>> a >> >> >>>>>> >>> battle >> >> >>>>>> >>> between smoothing and simulation. One odd thing I noticed, >> >> >>>>>> >>> is >> >> >>>>>> >>> that >> >> >>>>>> >>> when I >> >> >>>>>> >>> run the game with maxplayer to 1, it runs only the server >> >> >>>>>> >>> code, >> >> >>>>>> >>> and >> >> >>>>>> >>> the >> >> >>>>>> >>> jitter is still there... >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Joel R. >> >> >>>>>> >>> <joelru...@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> I'd start from scratch again. >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> Quick question though... Are the ships in Eternal Silence >> >> >>>>>> >>> updating >> >> >>>>>> >>> the >> >> >>>>>> >>> client entity position and angles as you are? Or is it >> >> >>>>>> >>> server >> >> >>>>>> >>> side >> >> >>>>>> >>> only...? >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> On the flip side... I would create my own custom clientside >> >> >>>>>> >>> entity. This >> >> >>>>>> >>> way YOU control everything that happens to it, and not the >> >> >>>>>> >>> server, >> >> >>>>>> >>> because >> >> >>>>>> >>> it appears like you are battling with the prediction system. >> >> >>>>>> >>> If >> >> >>>>>> >>> the >> >> >>>>>> >>> origin/angles are off by a small tolerance (defined in >> >> >>>>>> >>> c_baseentity.cpp), >> >> >>>>>> >>> the client will teleport immediately to the server values. >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> Also, for the smoothing, I'd override the GetRenderOrigin >> >> >>>>>> >>> and >> >> >>>>>> >>> GetRenderAngles functions. This way you can display a >> >> >>>>>> >>> smoothed >> >> >>>>>> >>> origin/angles, but the simulation origin and angles are >> >> >>>>>> >>> still >> >> >>>>>> >>> simulated >> >> >>>>>> >>> perfectly. This may be another reason why you are getting >> >> >>>>>> >>> jitter, >> >> >>>>>> >>> because >> >> >>>>>> >>> of the battle between smoothing and simulation. >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Psy_Commando >> >> >>>>>> >>> <psycomma...@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> Finally got the dedicated server to work with my local >> >> >>>>>> >>> network >> >> >>>>>> >>> ip. >> >> >>>>>> >>> It >> >> >>>>>> >>> does >> >> >>>>>> >>> the same thing as with net_fakelag on the listen server, it >> >> >>>>>> >>> doesn't >> >> >>>>>> >>> look >> >> >>>>>> >>> broken to me... >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> Still can't find what part of the code is causing the >> >> >>>>>> >>> stuttering... >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Ben Pye <bfh...@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> W >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> -- >> >> >>>>>> >>> -Tony >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >> -- >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >> Kind regards, >> >> >>>>>> >> Saul Rennison >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> >>>>>> >> archives, >> >> >>>>>> >> please visit: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> >>>>>> > archives, >> >> >>>>>> > please visit: >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> >>>>>> > archives, >> >> >>>>>> > please visit: >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> >>>>>> archives, >> >> >>>>>> please visit: >> >> >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> >>>>> archives, >> >> >>>>> please visit: >> >> >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> -- >> >> >>>> -Tony >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> >>>> archives, >> >> >>>> please visit: >> >> >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> >> archives, >> >> >> please visit: >> >> >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> > archives, >> >> > please visit: >> >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> > archives, >> >> > please visit: >> >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> >> please visit: >> >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> > please visit: >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list 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