ROFL... not complaining, we're just brainstorming in an open forum, discussing a known problem in the hope of finding a solution. BTW, I don't run any plug-ins and very often updates break my server anyway. Maybe mine is the only server effected this way, but I tend to doubt that. I'm certain Valve tests their updates before they are force-feed to the community, but perhaps a little more testing would be of some value. Only Valve knows for sure and this is how we get to ask them. So we asked them... and Alfred placed the blame with the third party vendors. If you accept that answer... fine.
Does anybody remember the Windows 98 shut-down problem a few years ago? Microsoft claimed the problem was caused by third party vendors improperly using Microsoft dll's. The vendors shot back that they were using them the same way for years and that Microsoft had made a change. Microsoft shot back that the dll was designed a certain way and they (Microsoft) only changed it to make it work the way they had intended it to work. In the meantime, thousands of Windows 98 machines would hang on shit-down and would need to be unplugged to power off. I'm fairly certain that both parties were correct in their defense of the problem, but the customer is the one who suffered. The one who had the real power to fix the problem was Microsoft and finally, after their customers suffered long enough, Microsoft came out with an update that fixed the shut-down problem. Sound similar? Who has the power to resolve the issue? Perception trumps reality every time. -----Original Message----- From: Chris McCoy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released You know what? Developers of plug-ins know that they can make a simple admin mod (kick, ban, tk) without any of the fancy stuff (stats, xp, whatever) by using the SDK API. Or maybe they don't. They know that their users (all of us) would love something like this, but they continue to use SourceMM. How hard would it be for them to simply throw out a generic admin mod that they never have to touch again, just for those of us that don't want some fancy plug-in. If someone would just make that plugin, there'd be no more problems. No one would have any reason to ask Valve to do any of this stupid stuff. We already have what we _really_ need. No one cares enough to use it. And until they do, everybody's going to complain about the provided API not being enough. No one has to deal with Steam update patch breaks, but they choose to use plug-ins that they know are going to break. There's an alternative and you know it, so stop complaining. > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > From: "[DumB]TeXas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:25:38 +0200 > Reply-To: [email protected] > > What we _really_ need is a proper plugin framework like amx - it's been a > good while since source was released now and we still haven't seen anything > of sourcemod. If we had this, made properly using the supported methods, > developers could use this to build fairly stable plugins and we could for an > example have database functionality. A proper bansystem that can check users > against a central ban database and plugins allowing things like advertising > messages, admins, reserved slots, mod XP points and whatever being read from > a database instead of files are some examples where this is needed. > > However, in the meantime the SDK does not provide all the functionality the > developers need - if it did they would be using it. That valve has no > obligations to help the people making it possible for us to run our game > servers is bs imo. > > I would certainly not be able to run my servers without proper admin support > (no, rcon doesn't do the trick) and as long as valve does not provide any > solutions for this them self they should be very grateful for the work these > developers put into making their game service better. These developers put a > lot of time and effort into this and do not demand any money back from the > users - while valve is a multi-billion business (god knows how much they > have earned on online hl based games over the years). > > Not to mention people like us that put A LOT of our spare time into running > servers for their games. Without all the people out there doing this, valve > would not have a customer base for their online games (there would be no > servers). > > If just the ~250k players we have had playing at our servers over the past > year or so have used $30 on steam games - that's $7500000 worth of players > using our services free of charge. In the end valve should not just turn > their backs to us and just tell us not to use these 3rd party plugins when > valve can solve this fairly easily and save all their customers and people > providing services for their games for a lot of problems. > > All it would take is pre-releasing their updates so that developers can > debug their plugins before everyone is forced to update and have a fix > ready. (Wee I've said that so many times now :D) > > Best regards the AFPRM (Admins For Pre Release Movement). :P > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Simpson > Sent: 27. august 2006 18:56 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released > > Seeing Valve's point of view on this, any suggestion here, even just > pre-releasing the server updates in advance of the public release, is going > to increase Valve's workload because of people using unsupported methods in > plugins, and I think it should be pretty obvious to everyone why Valve see > that as unacceptable. > > The real issue is why plugin developers have to use unsupported methods in > the first place, and the dialogue should be around providing the means by > which plugin developers shouldn't have to do things an unsupported way so > that this becomes a non-issue. In the meantime, the plugin developers who do > use unsupported methods should just make everyone aware that their plugins > are inevitably going to break on a version roll. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bobby35ny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 5:42 PM > Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released > > > > How is this even a debate? > > > > Valve is saying go by our rules AKA sdk, and the mods will be fine. > > > > The mod makers should adhere to the rules. If the mod maker wants to add a > > feature that has to go around the API, shame on them. > > > > The community should tell the mod makers to stick to the rules. > > > > I wish there was a admin type mod that followed the rules 100%, I would > > use > > it in a heartbeat. > > > > -Bobby > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
