Thanks, Edward, you saved me quite a lot of time I could spend trying to express my view on this problem.
On 20/12/06, Edward Luna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Obviously both sides have valid points however, there still remains the question of how much control a server operator should have and I don't really think any of you actually believe "server operator abuse" is rampant and causing a major problem for the gamming community and therefore must be reigned in. We can recognize that admin abuse exists but we should also acknowledge that it's rare and not the central issue. As with politics, so much relies on simple opinion rather than hard fact so we should throw out the red-meat components of this discussion and enlighten ourselves to the actual needs and the greater good instead of concentrating on the worst aspects of either position. As a server admin myself I naturally tend to gravitate to that side of the argument but I believe there is good reason for that. Our servers are virtual targets for every socially challenged deranged semi-genius with a keyboard, hell bent on cheating or generally being disruptive... we need the tools to be able to counter that, not because we want to be policemen but rather because effective policing does not exist. The issue of server redirects is minor in comparison to the larger issue of server admin control. I tend to favor the server admin-centric view and I'm strongly in favor of strengthening the admin controls not weakening them. If we must police something then lets police server admins who abuse the powers bestowed upon them... provide for a review process for all admin abuse allegations and provide for strict penalties for abusive admins ranging from a slap on the wrist to permanent server de-listing or all points in-between. We must assume the server admin community is as committed if not more committed to eliminating admin abuse as any player or group of players might be... we already know what a fair percentage of the player community has in mind and controlling that huge bio-mass is a lot tougher than self policing the admin community. -----Original Message----- From: Roman Hatsiev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 6:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve...can we get the connect command for redirect in SCRDS? Everyone has his own understanding of abuse. So please do not pretend that your understanding is more correct than mine. On 20/12/06, Thortok2000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A server has the right to say 'My house, my rules.' The server can run > custom mods and what not. The server can that, if you're going to play > here, you have to do this. And ultimately, the server can kick or ban you > if you don't cooperate. > > What the server should NOT be able to do is to MAKE you do anything, except > leave, without your knowledge and consent. > > A lot of the code, in my opinion, needs to be reworked so the the same > functions as before (such as team switching, slaying, etc.) are available as > things to be done to the player instead of forcing the player to do these > things themselves. To my very limited understanding, such reworkings are > already in progress. > > When it comes to connecting to another server, I've already said, a popup > dialog box (similar to the auto-retry when full dialog box) pops up saying > "we recommend" and it could have one or multiple servers. Then you could > say "No, connect me to this one, auto-join when ready". Server ops could > set whether that dialog box pops up all the time, or only when the server is > full. > > And similarly, a dialog box if a server is closed, forwarding on to the > correct server. > > The point is, ops shouldn't be able to take control of your keyboard and do > things for you. They can kick you off their server, but they shouldn't > force where you go after that, without knowledge or consent of the user. > That's abuse. That's not "My house, my rules", that's "You are now my slave > until you manually disconnect." > > Sarcasm is not appreciated, so let's try to be constructive, okay? I > realize I'm new here, but I figure petty fighting isn't going to accomplish > much. I figure there's so many ways we could improve this game if we work > constructively and share ideas. > > --Thortok2000 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roman Hatsiev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 5:28 AM > Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve...can we get the connect command for redirect in > SCRDS? > > > Server commands were disabled just in tide with this brand new idea of > > protecting players from server operators abuse and giving players more > > choice than ever. At the same time this choice is being taken away > > from sever operators. I just suggest to make next logical step because > > kick and ban abuse is far worse that anything else. For example, > > yesterday I got banned on one of servers in Germany just for five > > kills of server admin I made in row so he started falling from the top > > of his stats. This IS abuse, not the server commands or redirect or > > anything else. We must do something. Let's start vote topic on Steam > > forums and you'll see what community thinks about it. > > > > On 20/12/06, Joshua Handelsman-Woolf (DogGunn) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > >> Well I think you may of taken it the wrong way. What I'm suggesting is, > >> if there was to forced functions such as the connect command, it would > >> be nice to have a dialog or something to say you have been recommended > >> to move to this server instead of just joining another server. > >> Roman Hatsiev wrote: > >> > Everyone hate being kicked or banned. I suggest removing kick and > >> > banid commands from the game. It must be a player's choice whether to > >> > play on this server, not server operator's. Also kick and ban are > >> > widely abused by many server operators, we must do something to > >> > protect players! The freedom of choice for players is everything, > >> > while server operators deserve no choice at all. > >> > > >> > On 20/12/06, Joshua Handelsman-Woolf (DogGunn) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > wrote: > >> >> Oh noes, please not the redirect, that annoyed me. I hated being > >> >> switched to another server without actually being given the option. > >> >> john @ GamersCoalition wrote: > >> >> > No reason to be afraid; thanks for the recommendation. > >> >> > > >> >> > On 12/19/06, Graham Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> >> "But they might also find it "annoying" to not be able to connect > >> >> to a > >> >> >> server showing 20/23 > >> >> >> because of 3 reserve slots." > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I'm afraid to say this but you are doing your reserve slot system > >> >> >> wrong then. You want sv_visiblemaxplayers set to 20 > >> >> >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >> >> archives, please visit: > >> >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > [Mmmm]stuttering.john .gc > >> >> > "Together we spawn." > >> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >> > http://www.gamerscoalition.com > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >> > archives, > >> >> > please visit: > >> >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> >> please visit: > >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> > please visit: > >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
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